S5 Ep17: What It Takes to Launch an Exceptional Food Product with Values with MJ Kinney
“Plant-based was born and became adopted by the industry because this is not necessarily a vegan product, but it has some of these same values.” — MJ Kinney
Creating a plant-based food product is no small feat— from developing a nutritious and flavorful recipe to designing your labeling and packaging, and eventually coming up with a strategy for getting your products into the hands of potential consumers.
It takes a lot of hard work, dedication, and passion to get to your first sale. But if you have a great idea for a plant-based product, it can be extremely rewarding both personally and professionally.
In this episode, Justine sits with MJ Kinney, the founder and Principal Food Scientist at FareScience. MJ works in the advancement of plant-based food products in terms of nutrition, taste, price, and scalability. Her work in moving food science forward is not only tailored with the society's need for better alternatives but also to promote product development with values.
Justine and MJ discuss the necessary steps in launching a plant-based food product— from concept building, to finding the right contract manufacturers, and from making sure your product follows the plant-based values to finally seeing your own products in store shelves. They also talk about the shaming around vegetarianism and veganism, how plant-based was born, and how long it takes to launch your product.
Connect with MJ:
MJ Kinney uses her specialized scientific, social, and commercial knowledge to develop exceptional food products that do well for both producers and consumers. MJ is a food scientist and the founder of FareScience, specializing in alternative proteins. Her innovative approach relies on a comprehensive understanding of how R&D, marketing, sales, and project management interact. MJ’s creative and unique strategy is born from her varied roles in and around food science, as well as her successes in business to business, business to consumer, and non-profit sectors.
MJ’s product development experience spans the natural, organic, and plant-based foods segment, where she has formulated according to a wide variety of standards including vegan, clean label, USDA Certified Organic, Non-GMO, allergen-free, gluten-free, protein enhanced, and reduced sugar. She is a go-to expert for the application of plant protein ingredients into alternative meat, egg, and dairy products, as well as puffed snacks, cereals, beverages, spreads, sauces, and much more.
Episode Highlights:
03:32 Meet MJ and Fare Science
06:07 The Shame and Guilt Around Vegetarianism
10:11 How Plant-Based Was Born
16:54 What Goes Into Contract Manufacturing
19:42 Working with Contract Manufacturers
24:19 When Your Labor Bears Fruit
Tweets:
If you're thinking about developing a plant-based food product, there are a few things you need to keep in mind. Listen in as @jreichman and FareScience Founder and Principal Food Scientist, MJ Kinney walk you through the necessary steps of launching your product.
#podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #foodscience #foodtech #plantbased #productdevelopment #vegetarianism #veganism #flexitarianism #contractmanufacturing
Inspirational Quotes:
07:40 "Maybe the reason why veganism and vegetarianism didn't stick for a good portion of the population was this purist mentality. We're humans that are filled with conflicting ideas to create a very purist nature within any facet of our life." -MJ Kinney
10:57 "Plant-based was born and became adopted by the industry because this is not necessarily a vegan product, but it has some of these same values." -MJ Kinney
15:52 "It was interesting and eye-opening to see what's going on with the animals— Not necessarily about the way that we're eating them, but the way that the humans are treating them. They'd have a better life if they were left to go on their own." -Justine Reichman
24:22 "The combination of all of my experiences in the food industry really brought me up to this moment, and they're all interacting with one another." -MJ Kinney
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. Today with me is MJ Kinney who is the Principal in Food Scientist of FareScience. Welcome, MJ.
MJ Kinney: Thank you so much, Justine, for having me.
Justine Reichman: Welcome, MJ, fellow New Yorker. I'm so excited to chat with you and learn more about FareScience and what you're up to.
MJ Kinney: Likewise. I like that we both have taken this path from East Coast to West Coast and are happily both on the West Coast.
Justine Reichman: You're in Southern California, I'm in Northern California. But either way, we both landed here.
MJ Kinney: Yeah. It is such a huge state. And it's really, really cool. I have yet to actually drive up north, but to really experience all of the beauty in the state. But I just love that you can kind of have in a matter of two hours, you could still be in California and have a completely different landscape and experience. There's no hot weather.
Justine Reichman: It's beautiful. It's so true because when I think about living in New York, I think about all the states on the northeast corridor that we could travel to in a couple hours. When I lived in New York City, I could be in Connecticut in 45 minutes. I could be in Pennsylvania in an hour and a half. I could be in Delaware in an hour and 20 minutes. I mean, you can be in Washington, DC in four hours. The northeast corridor has so many different places you can go to.
MJ Kinney: I have to say because I have made the drive from Upstate New York to Florida several times. And every time, I was like, that is the last time. But I've done it I think now four times. And it is a really nice thing to be able to say I'm now in this state, like you've accomplished all these states at the end of the day. And I think if you were doing a road trip from the southernmost part of California, or like Arizona all the way to Washington or Canada, that would be pretty. It would feel very unremarkable for progress along the way of that road trip.
Justine Reichman: I drove to LA. My dad lives in LA and I drive there for work or to go visit him. Yeah, five and a half hour drive for six hours and you're still in the same state. The mile markers or the milestones that you make are just unremarkable on the way. I haven't done the Pacific Coast Highway. I did the one on one. I went from Santa Barbara back, okay, are on the water. But I don't think it's the one.
MJ Kinney: It's so remarkably beautiful. I would just suggest that if you do it, you can definitely absorb the view because it's so distracting.
Justine Reichman: I have to do it on the way back from Southern California so that I'm not on the side of the highway, because I'm afraid of heights. So well the next time I come up and the next time you come down, you'll have to let me now. Okay, so in the meantime, for all our guests listening or watching, MJ, tell us about FareScience. I do want to chat with you, and we can probably chat all afternoon. But I think our listeners would really appreciate learning a little bit more about you and FareScience.
MJ Kinney: Yeah, thank you. FareScience is the name of my consulting company. It kind of came about, I wouldn't say mistake. But it started off originally being a blog between a food science friend and myself. I just really liked the name. So when I decided to go into my own business, I decided to carry that name with me. And FARE just being obviously a synonym for the word food and food science, kind of try to be creative there. But I also wanted to, I know it's yet to be done really intentionally in my line of work, but it is a value of mine to incorporate more equity into really any industry, but especially the food industry. When we work with so many different types of people from so many different types of backgrounds in order to accomplish the supply chain that we have to make the foods that we consume. So FARE also has a little bit of that in the inner workings as well as a value system. But essentially, what I do is I'm a food scientist. I specialize in food product development, more specifically the plant based space and plant based meat, egg and dairy products. And what I'll do with my clients is I'll sit down with them and understand the concept or the idea that they want to launch. And when I say launch, I mean not really in the food service sector, but the grocery retail segment. And defining that concept to a reality that I could create a tangible prototype. And so I go from concept to prototype or minimum viable product, and then to a scale that starts with a benchtop or kitchen but works its way to a pilot and then eventually to a commercial scale production. And that involves sourcing ingredients. It also involves finding a contract manufacturer, which are very difficult things to do, but things that weirdly I enjoy doing.
Justine Reichman: So wow, that's super exciting. So you studied food science in school, I'm assuming.
MJ Kinney: Yes, I did. I went to school at the University of Florida Food Science and Human Nutrition. I actually think most of my education was, honestly, in my internship experience, after graduating with my bachelor's degree, there really was this idea that I had to get a master's degree in order to do food R&D. And I wasn't convinced. I'm glad because I went into an internship experience that taught me so much about how the industry actually works that gave me a lens beyond what academia could afford me. And then in addition to that, it put me on the ground floor of a really big change that was happening. And that was talking about or even coining the phrase plant based, and offering more than just soy protein in the plant protein world when it came to the food that we ate.
Justine Reichman: What sparked the interest for you to focus on plant based specifically?
"Maybe the reason why veganism and vegetarianism didn't stick for a good portion of the population was this purist mentality. We're humans that are filled with conflicting ideas to create a very purist nature within any facet of our life." -MJ Kinney
MJ Kinney: Well, so how it happened was, I was always interested in understanding, it wasn't called plant based, it was more like the vegetarian diet. There were just some things from a very logical standpoint that didn't make sense to me. I just thought, do we really need to be eating as much meat as we do? I didn't identify and I still don't really identify as a vegetarian. But I just thought, why aren't we ever being taught what foods we should be eating from the plant kingdom when it's so much focus to be consuming dairy and meat? It was just so obvious even within my curriculum in college. But also just growing up in the time that I was growing up, I also have a couple of food intolerances, which really widely weren't acknowledged by doctors. And so I had to do a lot of self discovery to figure out what works for my body. And so I was curious about veganism and vegetarianism. I actually didn't think that the idea of having these strict rules with only consuming non animal products was sustainable. But I just thought, hey, we're not even talking about it. And so my first internship experiences actually with this company called--
Justine Reichman: I want to circle back to one thing you mentioned, veganism and vegetarianism, but you didn't mention flexitarianism. That's a newer word that people are using now.
MJ Kinney: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a good word to be using because maybe the reasons why veganism, vegetarianism didn't stick for a good portion of the population was like this purist mentality. We're humans that are filled with conflicting ideas to create a very purist nature within any facet of our life is rather unsustainable so why not a flexitarian diet?
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I think that flexitarianism makes it realistic and palatable for me. I also feel like when people strive for veganism or vegetarianism, there's potential for failure there when you stray, or if you cheat, those things. But when there's flexitarianism, for the people that maybe are not quite there or maybe want to have it here and there, they don't have to feel shame around including it in their diet when maybe they want it once every blue moon or something to be a negative thing. But they can still have. They can still be the person that they want and work towards having a plant based diet, whether it's better for them as a person, for the planet, whatever their value system may be. I mean, I just thought it was a more positive list for people because I feel like there's just so much shame around it.
MJ Kinney: Oh, for sure, there definitely was. I remember being afraid to want to even understand vegetarianism and veganism because it became more of a topic that wasn't about what is healthy, but almost like a cult or religion. And it's not that at all, but that was just the perception. And it was a negative perception. I think the perception was so widely acknowledged that it created institutions like the Good Food Institute to come out and say, hey, our messaging isn't working. Maybe it hasn't been for some time, let's approach it another way.
Justine Reichman: Right. And I also felt that it was not, I mean, there is some activism around it in many instances. I'm not gonna say that we don't want to activate them, for the animals, or for this or that. And I think that there's a lot of good work being done around it. And that being said, I feel like oftentimes, it can be also alienating for people. And it can feel very scary when you walk into that to learn about it, to talk about it.
"Plant-based was born and became adopted by the industry because this is not necessarily a vegan product, but it has some of these same values." -MJ Kinney
MJ Kinney: It is related to how plant based came to be because plant based was a term I remember kind of inventing with the puris team before P-protein was cool. And at that time, they were taking this really big bet in transitioning out of soy protein and going into protein. If you look at the b2b ingredient marketplace, you could still find p-protein that was green, and you really couldn't find it isolated beyond like a 60% concentrate. And suddenly, they were releasing ingredients that were neutral in color, flavor and aroma as best as it could be at that time. They've only improved as well as the whole market, but also something that was not great. Plant based was born this term, and I think it was widely used, and then it just became adopted by the industry because it was like, how do we tell consumers that this is a not necessarily a vegan product, but that it has maybe some of these same values, or that it incorporates a majority of plant based ingredients without calling it vegan because we know that that's not resonating with consumers.
Justine Reichman: As a food scientist, what's your motivation for building out the plant based innovation space?
MJ Kinney: Oh, I think there's a lot of reasons. I believe there should be more options available. And I think about selfish consumers, like myself, who consume almost anything on a value basis. Whenever I purchase, that is a vote in some favor of something. And sometimes, it's so foreign. And so far, I don't grasp the impact that I'm making. But with food, it's really hard for me to ignore what I know. And so I'm not vegan, but it's very hard for me to eat animals, and really any kind of meat. Do I do it on occasion? Yeah, I do. I kind of feel a little bad about it, to be honest, which is maybe something that I need to work on. But just to have an option for people like myself, or people who can resonate with that story a little bit to say that I can have something that tastes like meat, looks like meat. They can serve it to people that like to eat meat, and they maybe wouldn't know otherwise. But the other thing too is what kind of impact could this new kind of invention of products do for human health. I like to usually stay away from the story of helpfulness or what is healthy. But one of the things I find interesting that no one's talking about is we're essentially pure plant based products, given this opportunity to introduce new ingredients to the human diet and diversity all at once. Because as you may know, when it comes to the protein story, it's usually a combination of plant proteins or plant protein sources to create this complete protein profile. And so I'm interested in knowing how this is going to have an impact, and how this could actually benefit the way people eat or their health in the long term.
Justine Reichman: Yeah, I think so too. Especially as you were talking about, well, you have your own intolerances, I have my own intolerances. And so many other people do too. And for people that are plant (inaudible), a lot of the proteins come from, it could be nuts, it could be all these different things. And for myself, I'm allergic to a variety of nuts, which makes a whole host of issues if you're going to try to eat.
MJ Kinney: Yeah, it's hard for you.
"It was interesting and eye-opening to see what's going on with the animals— Not necessarily about the way that we're eating them, but the way that the humans are treating them. They'd have a better life if they were left to go on their own." -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: It could be really hard. Introducing these new plant proteins can open up options. I'm excited to hear more about these innovations as they come down the pipeline to see what other things we can eat. And also the taste. Because let's be honest, if it doesn't taste, nobody wants to eat it. I like my food. So it's interesting to see that we went to the Mindful Food and Film Festival this weekend in Iran. I don't know if you heard about it. It was the third of the day it had, it was big. I'll send you some info. There were a couple films that were done. One was on factory farming, some different things like that. But then they had a whole host of vegan food. They're from different places. And what was interesting was things that we had, I had never seen before. Some of it, I have because of the space that I'm in and we're in. So obviously, it's not completely new to me. But I thought it was interesting to bring that all together so that people can be more exposed to the different options that are out there. It was super interesting. I'll share it with you. It's called the Mindful Food and Film Festival. Miyoko's Creamery, she was one of the sponsors. She put it together because she has something called Rancho Compasion. Okay, pardon my accent. It's really bad. It's a compassionate sanctuary for animals. And this is their fundraiser, money for this compassionate sanctuary where they house about 100 animals or so. And so it's around education so people can better understand how to be compassionate around animals. I'll send you some information.
MJ Kinney: Yeah. And among other people just displaying different products or?
Justine Reichman: Having different products, there was a green carpet the night before, (inaudible) of a film called The Smell of Money. That was all about the factory farming in North Carolina with the pig farms. I don't know if you'd heard about that. I'll send you the info. And then what was going on with the elk in Marin County. And then there were some other films going on. Anyway, it was really interesting and really eye opening to what's going on with the way that they're treating animals, just information as to what's going on to help the treatment of the animals to be more compassionate to these animals. Not necessarily about the way that we're eating them, but the way that the humans are treating them, that they'd have a better life if they were left to go on their own, basically. But anyway, I'll send you the information. And for those of you guys, Food and Film Festival, and they'll have another one next year.
MJ Kinney: Yeah, yeah. Your dog is popping in the background every once in a while. I thought it was like a little deer. He's so sketchy.
Justine Reichman: We have two dogs. He's a rescue. Oh, you can see her face a little. Okay, so you're working on these new things. Are you working on something now?
MJ Kinney: I always make it a point to be developing a food product while also doing kind of like dabbling in other areas. Admittedly, a lot of my time is dedicated to XPRIZE. Right now, we are in our semi final stage of the competition. We're going to be hosting, actually semifinals event in Abu Dhabi in November. So I think it's now 28 teams and where they are with their prototypes. I think it's a different species of fish, one species of chicken, but chicken breasts and fish filet, whole muscle cuts. And we've already seen videos as a part of the verification process, which are miraculously close and beyond my expectation. I'm very, very excited to see these in person. And also, I should just say, I'm not even going to be tasting the samples. We have a judging panel that does that. I am behind the scenes working on all kinds of things. We have somebody who's helping us in the capacity of a sensory analysis expert designing the sensory experiment, I guess you could call it an experiment. But essentially, the sensory design work that we're going to be having with our judging panel, which is 12 members, and they're going to be trained on how to evaluate chicken breasts using the animal origin reference, as well as each type of fish species that's involved in this competition. And instead of grading the sensory aspects on something subjective like what is their personal opinion on whether or not they like the prototype. It's actually going to be how closely does this prototype mimic the animal origin reference itself. Very exciting data that's going to be coming out of this.
And from 28 teams globally, there's really nothing like it. But that's what's taking up most of my time and my energy, and I'm really happy to be a part of it. But it's a lot of thinking. And the thinking break that I need is to get my hands dirty, and actually be developing. So it's probably pretty limited what I can talk about, but they are all within the plant based meat, egg and dairy categories working on restructured and full muscle products right now, though. So developing plant based meat essentially replicates an animal origin reference. That's different from what's currently being offered in the market. Also, actively working on some projects that have been underway for a number of years because there are, you can have a really great formulation. But unfortunately, it won't see the light of day for reasons that are really beyond one's control or require a very steep reevaluation. What I'm referring to is like the limited capacity for contract manufacturers. Are you familiar with contract manufacturing?
Justine Reichman: But that being said, we might have listeners that are not familiar. Go into that a little bit.
MJ Kinney: So a contract manufacturer is a manufacturer that will build your food product for you and the massive quantity that it takes for it to exist in a retail segment, but they also produce products for other customers or they might actually produce products for themselves under their own grande. But essentially, they are the keystone because they own the manufacturing facility, the equipment, the labor, people who are absolutely essential to the process of producing your product. So you can have a formula, which will be in a spreadsheet. You will have all of your ingredient suppliers that are sourced, which are in multiple spreadsheets. And all of the documents to verify their specifications and their safety. And then you can produce it, benchtop, which for me is in my kitchen. But for a lot of food companies, it's within their lab environments, which by the way in the food world don't differ too much. You'll scale to a pilot facility, which oftentimes I like to use the contract manufacturer as the pilot facility, but you can also go to, oftentimes, land grant universities that will have their own pilot facility program. So those are all the steps that are needed before you get to the contract manufacturer. And it'll take easily six months working on a really fast timeline, by the way, to get there. And then you get to the contract manufacturing part and you realize that no one's gonna take you because their minimum order quantities, like basically, the amount of volume that you feel is so huge. And you're like, wait, you guys entertain the idea of helping startups? Did I miss something on your website where it explicitly says that you help startups? It's very awkward. It's very awkward. But essentially, if you don't meet their minimum order quantities. Sometimes, they're just not the right fit. Not everybody is in business, right? Or just geographical constraints, maybe you actually want to launch on the West Coast, I want to have your manufacturer all the way on the East Coast. If you have a product with a very short shelf life because you insist on high pressure pasteurization or like basically a non heat from a pasteurization. It's so many factors, but that one is kind of the holdup for a lot of projects. Fortunately, a manufacturer came through after a year and a half search.
Justine Reichman: That's all? I'm just kidding. It was a joke.
MJ Kinney: Yeah, a year and a half. I've heard of longer, you're really lucky. Honestly, if you can do it in under a year. In today's world, there are so many players that are interested in this space. And once the big players are interested and they don't want to use their own manufacturing facility, a contract manufacturer is knocking at their door.
Justine Reichman: So I have a question for you. With all these innovations that you're doing, and they sound remarkable, when do you think we'll see some of the stuff on menus in restaurants?
MJ Kinney: So the products that I'm working on, there might actually be one available for you to view in food service. That wouldn't be until 2023, and in the summer at the soonest. But everything else would be available at a grocery retail level. I'm pretty sure. And so hopefully, you'll see some innovations in the plant based dairy category as soon as 2023, closer to January.
Justine Reichman: Was it in Singapore where they had the plant based meats right on the menu?
MJ Kinney: Oh, I think you're referring to the cell based meat.
Justine Reichman: Cell based meat. To me, that was like a big deal. I'm curious, what do you think we'll see stuff like that here?
MJ Kinney: Oh, so you want to know when, I thought you want to know when my interview--
Justine Reichman: I want to know. And now I'm curious what you think we'll see stuff like that.
"The combination of all of my experiences in the food industry really brought me up to this moment, and they're all interacting with one another." -MJ Kinney
MJ Kinney: Cell based ingredients I have worked with to do very basic prototype formulations, usually for the purpose of showcasing what their ingredient looks and tastes like to a potential investor. When that will be available in consumer retail in the US is a huge unknown. And if I gave you a number, I would just be throwing an umbrella.
Justine Reichman: Just curious. But to get back to yours, that's amazing. It's gonna be in stores and on menus soon.
MJ Kinney: And you're gonna take a look at my website because a lot of products that I've made are already on store shelves. And that's a really, really cool thing to be able to accomplish.
Justine Reichman: It's huge. That's a thing.
MJ Kinney: It's really cool. This combination of all of my experiences in the food industry really brought me up to this moment, and they're all interacting with one another. So I worked in the b2b ingredient marketplace, and I learned so much from that world. How to formulate good products, how to find ingredients, who the suppliers were. That really did a lot of the heavy lifting when I went into independent consulting, but I also worked in the b2c side to know what it's like to cross up product of our finish line to the point where you have it to consumers, and you're even interacting with the consumers getting responses or feedback that aren't positive and no one wants do with that information. And also getting ones that are positive seem like I'm so glad I do what I do, or messages, or people are like, thank you for giving me. Honestly, the most impactful moments when you're like, why do I do this is like when you hear from somebody who's had, kind of like a crippling food intolerance or allergy, and they suddenly have an alternative. And then if they throw their kid in there, I'm just tears. Like printing something for them. But I think I actually forgot your question, which was, when cell based ingredients are going to be in the retail segment?
Justine Reichman: Just making it up basically, which is a fair enough answer.
MJ Kinney: Okay. I'm glad. I am one of those people who, if I don't know the answer, I'll tell you and be like, but I can find out.
Justine Reichman: You can find that answer. I'll come back, and then we'll put that up there too. But in the meantime, I don't want to just put something up. That's not right.
MJ Kinney: I will say that if someone is interested in really understanding how long it's going to be for cell based ingredients to reach the US market, there are a couple of things they can do. And these are some very shameless plugs I'm going to put in there. They can go to xprize.org/feed. And they can subscribe to their newsletter, because you're talking about half of the 28 teams that are semi finals that are being there. They're going to be showcasing a cell based prototype in Abu Dhabi this November, so that's going to be something you want to follow. Because not saying we're going to share a lot of information with outsiders, right? But at least experts are going to know internally where these prototypes are, and how feasible they are in coming into the marketplace. And we're going to share some of that information, not all of it, but it's probably going to be one of the only assessments of its kind that can do that. And then the other thing I would do when subscribing is keep a lookout for the webinars that are specific to cell based or cultivated meat and its regulation, because we're having those conversations now between the US, EU and Singapore. So pretty interesting crowd that they pulled together. I know we've had two webinars on that so far.
Justine Reichman: Okay. And then for our guests that are listening or watching today, they want to keep up with what you're up to because they listen to your story, and they're interested in what you're doing, and they want to follow you to Abu Dhabi and check out, how might they do that?
MJ Kinney: Well, I have to say, I'm not very present on any social media platform. I do have a LinkedIn, and you are welcome to connect with me on there. I apologize in advance for all the interaction I won't be doing. Honestly, if you really want to get in touch and know what I'm up to, I recommend going to my website, it's farescience.com, it's F-A-R-E SCIENCE. And there, you can view my free resources. I do a little bit of writing. If you are interested in understanding what it takes to launch a food product or to go from this idea concept stage to an actual launch, there are free resources to really understand that space better, which will almost always involve unless you are a technical person hiring a food scientist or a product developer consultant. The other thing I'll say is that I will be going to protein industries in Canada, their annual general meeting, which is in mid September, which is pretty exciting. That'll be in Winnipeg, Canada Midwest. You can find me on LinkedIn, my website, and then maybe some of the same events.
Justine Reichman: That sounds good. Hopefully, you'll stay in touch with us. We'll have a little update from you after the competition as well.
MJ Kinney: That sounds great. Actually, that really should. I would love to have a conversation with you in November, maybe not. Okay, hold on. Let me think about this, November, we're going to be there for two to three weeks. And then I think it's going to be like, I get back right in the nick of time for Thanksgiving, so it might be early December or starting up 2023.
Justine Reichman: Okay, we will organize it so that we get a recap, find out what happened, and how you're doing, and what's really cool. I will do that. Will bring you back to them. How's that?
MJ Kinney: That sounds great.
Justine Reichman: So stay tuned for an update from MJ, and we'll keep tabs on her in the meantime.
MJ Kinney: That sounds great. Just stay tuned for three, four months.
Justine Reichman: MJ, thank you for joining us. Great to meet you, to connect with you, to learn all about what you're doing. Excited to find out your products. I'm gonna go online, check them out and see where I can get them. All right. I hope to see them on the menus in restaurants soon.
MJ Kinney: Thank you.
Justine Reichman: I want to thank our guests for tuning in, and we'll see you here next week.
