S5 Ep16: Plant-Based Probiotics for a Healthier Gut and a Happier Planet with Ryan Johnston
“We, as food brands, can do better. We can deliver higher quality products. We can work with fresher ingredients that are better sourced.” — Ryan Johnston
The trend of going plant-based is powerful for many reasons. For one, it promotes gut health. Our gut microbiome is made up of trillions of bacteria that play a crucial role in digestion, immunity, and overall health.
Diet is a major modifiable factor that influences gut microbiota composition. Unfortunately, the modern diet and lifestyle are major contributing factors to an imbalanced gut microbiome. On the other hand, a plant-based diet is rich in fiber and phytonutrients, which promote a healthy gut microbiome.
Biotic Ferments is a company that was built for this reason. Being a social purpose company, Biotic Ferments have taken its game to the next level by using USDA Certified Organic ingredients that are regeneratively sourced. They also use renewable sources in their production, practice zero food waste, use 70% recycled glass with BPA-free lids, and avoid using refined sugar in their products. Most importantly, they do not sacrifice taste as they believe food should be a source of joy and satisfaction.
In this episode, Justine sits with Biotic Ferments co-founder and CEO, Ryan Johnston. Justine and Ryan discuss how to weave tradition into innovation, what regenerative agriculture means and how to practice it at home and in business, how to run a food brand that touches people, what it takes to run a family business, and the secret to creating products with better flavor and higher quality.
Connect with Ryan:
Ryan is the co-founder and CEO of Biotic Brands, a family-owned social-purpose beverage company. He grew up in west Sonoma County where his love for living systems had grown over the years.
Ryan also serves as the Strategic Advisor at Landscape Carbon Calculator, Orchard Manager and Cidemaker at Ethic Ciders, and the Chair of the Board of Directors at Daily Acts Organization, where he met his lovely wife, Kellen.
When he's not working, Ryan spends his time fly fishing, backpacking, foraging, gardening, and cooking. Ryan and Kellen now live in Sebastopol.
Episode Highlights:
00:53 A Big Dream Came True
05:33 Creativity is Not Magic
10:08 Making Knowledge Accessible to All
16:57 What Anima Means
21:06 Revolutionizing Human Experience with Food
27:12 Research and Development Toward Improvement
Tweets:
Transitioning to a plant-based lifestyle helps improve gut health and heal the environment. Listen in as @jreichman and Biotic Ferments CEO, Ryan Johnston shares how to build a business with these values in mind. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #KVASS #organic #familybusiness #regenerativeagriculture #businessbuilding #climatechange #metabolichealth
Inspirational Quotes:
02:36 "In each generation, it's their obligation to look back and pull forward the best of the past and merge it with the best of what's here to make something fresh and new to carry forward." -Ryan Johnston
04:46 "Food plays a big role culturally for a lot of people… It's not uncommon to sit and build relationships around food." -Justine Reichman
15:00 "Food brands have this unique role to play like bridge builders to help people understand what's going on in their supply webs and how they can be part of the solution." -Ryan Johnston
19:59 "We, as food brands, can do better. We can deliver higher quality products. We can work with fresher ingredients that are better sourced." -Ryan Johnston
26:17 "People's tastes are changing, and they're excited to try things new and different." -Ryan Johnston
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Good afternoon, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. Today with me is Ryan Johnston. He is Co-Founder and CEO of Biotic Ferments.
Welcome, Ryan.
Ryan Johnston: Pleasure to be here.
Justine Reichman: I'm so glad that you're here. I'm excited to get to know you and to learn a little bit about Biotic Ferments. So for our guests that are tuning in, before we get going, can you tell us what Biotic Ferments is?
Ryan Johnston: Sure, absolutely. So we make the new wave of probiotic beverages. We are based in Sonoma County, California. And we're a vertically integrated business. We own our manufacturing up there as well. And I say WE, my father, my brother and I are the ones running the business. Really, my brother and I are day to day, and the products we make are actually called kvass. Probably those who are familiar with the space probably know kombucha, a waterkeeper, and kvass is like a third K and there. Kvass is a traditional fermented beverage from Eastern Europe. We kind of make a West Coast spin on it.
Justine Reichman: And what is that? What makes it to the west coast? What's the West Coast spin on it?
"In each generation, it's their obligation to look back and pull forward the best of the past and merge it with the best of what's here to make something fresh and new to carry forward." -Ryan Johnston
Ryan Johnston: Yeah. So traditionally, it's kind of like two branches of the kvass tree. This is coming from the Eastern European region. My heritage is from Poland, so it's kind of cool to think that my ancestors were drinking this beverage. Typical sort of immigrant story. It skipped a couple generations as my immigrants made their way, my ancestors made their way to the US. And now, we're kind of picking it up and giving it new life again. So traditionally kvass, they're made from bread and fermented from that, or slice beets become out of the spice beat lineage. So slice beets, water, a touch of salt, and then fermentation takes hold. It's almost like a sauerkraut or something like that. Exactly, that same lineage. Now, you can imagine, especially for the American palate, that's not everybody's cup of tea. A, beets are very divisive. But we found that some people love them. Some people hate them, all they taste is dirt. So we were like, okay, let's expand the palate of what this is. And so instead of using sliced beets, West Coast kvass uses sliced organic carrots, and then it's flavored with cold pressed juices. So we've really expanded the range and expression of kvass. And what's fun about that is like, it's kind of West Coast, California. It's like a one part tradition. And in one part, innovation. I think each generation, it's sort of their obligation in some ways to look back and pull for the best of the past, and then kind of merge it with the best of what's here. Make something fresh and new to carry forward. And I love that about food.
Justine Reichman: The way you're building your business with your family taking from the past and taking the best of the future, but really not forgetting about your lineage and what you learned, and what your family did. I mean, I'm a little hokey when it comes to that, honestly. So my parents would tell you that too. I eat off my grandparents' dishes all the time. I integrated into my life in so many different ways so I love the fact that you do this with your business, with food, and things that you're passing down, and that you're building for the future. So now, tell me, what is it like? I heard you mentioned that you worked with your brother and your father. So did you always work together? Or was this your first venture together?
"Food plays a big role culturally for a lot of people… It's not uncommon to sit and build relationships around food." -Justine Reichman
Ryan Johnston: Professionally, no. This is our first venture together. And that started for me joining up in 2019 as we sort of expanded the brand across the west coast, the United States. But we're a food family. I often say like food is our love language as a family. I mean, if we have a Sunday free, you're probably gonna find us coming together. It happened this last Sunday. Coming together, sharing a meal. Each one of the family members is a great and creative cook where I was kind of experimenting with different things. And so we grew up around that. That was a main touch point for us was really carving out the time to share dinner together. For the preparation of dinner, we'd sit at the bar and someone was cooking. We take turns each evening. Somebody else in the family is cooking, and the other one's lovingly critiquing, and like a part of that conversation as well. And so you're experimenting with different techniques, but then coming together and really kind of sharing that meal. So that's a cornerstone of my heart, and I think it was that love of food, that love of camaraderie. We're here in Sonoma County like hospitality kind of runs throughout the culture, as does healthy living. And so when a lot of ways biotic is kind of an outward expression of that love language, again, as food.
Justine Reichman: Well, I think it's so nice. And I do think that food plays a big role culturally for a lot of different people. We lived in Mexico City, I'm from the East Coast. Regardless, you can pick a place and I think that a lot of people come together around food. And it's a big part of our lives. Not everyone. People come together on hiking and biking, and all sorts of things. But it's not uncommon to sit and build relationships around food. So I love that you integrated that into your life as a way to build a future as well. I've done the same thing.
Ryan Johnston: Yeah. There's so many of us. And it's so fun when you find other people to kind of get that. And it's like, there's this instant clicking of like, oh, yeah, you get that as well. We as a species, we're meaning makers. And so food is such a fun way to come together and kind of help meaning. We've meaning and carry it forward. And like you said, you're eating off of your grandparents' plates. And for me, one of my favorite things is the story behind where ingredients come from. The central theme of your podcast here as well. But the products we make very specifically kind of like, one of the core sort of motions for us was we had been making kombucha, my brother and I had been making kombucha throughout college. And I don't know if you've ever had the experience of making kombucha, but you brew up a strong batch of tea. And then there's this moment in the process, typically, where you're pouring in these heaping cup holes of refined sugar. We were pretty ardent local foodies. I think we all know refined sugars are not great for us. And even though the fermentation process that will be eaten now, we sort of were like looking at that process, we're like, there's got to be a better way. How do we find local fermentable sugars? And that's really what kind of led us down this pathway to rediscovering kvass. And those local fermentable sugars were beets growing in our backyard garden at that time.
So it's like, oh, wow, cool. We can still make these probiotic beverages, but fuel them with sugar rich root crops instead. So it was the beets that started that whole process with kitchen batches. And then we've used pretty much every route you can imagine to try and do this. And we ultimately settled on carrots, because they're a little bit more widely available. They create a really kind of beauty, it's probiotic rich, but the flavor is very mild, and that allows us to then layer the flavors with the cold pressed juices on top of that. So I'm doing that, keep in mind, we sit in a category where most of the products in our category. Again, most of them being kombucha are made from a base of refined sugar and tea, which are from far flung corners of the planet. Our beverages instead, bring that back home. So 85% of our ingredients are grown right here in California, and 85% of them are coming from either upcycle sources. So these are sources that would otherwise go to food waste. So reducing climate change in that way, giving those new homes, putting more dollars in the farmers pockets, over sourcing directly from farms practicing regenerative agriculture. That's where my background was in regenerative agriculture planning before getting into this. And so the farms were sourcing from or using cover crops and compost, rotating animals through. So we love to kind of put those pieces back together. And then 100% of the byproducts from fermentation also go back to local farms. And those are upcycled to animal feed on farms that are practicing regenerative grazing. So sort of connecting that loop from California soils all the way back to California soils.
Justine Reichman: So there's so much I want to talk to you about here. Because I feel that every time I'm talking to a guest here, one of the things we're talking about lately is regenerative agriculture. And when I talked to people just in common practice day to day, and we talked about regenerative agriculture, there's a lot of misconceptions. There's a lot of people that are questioning, what is regenerative agriculture? They're confused about it. They hear a lot of different answers around it. We have no data on here talking about what it was to them, which is obviously, many people go by that. But I'd love to hear from you a little bit about how you define regenerative agriculture, so that we can get a little clarity on that, and then continue the conversation from there for those people that are not as familiar so we can bring them up to speed. Every week, we have to level the playing field for everyone.
Ryan Johnston: Absolutely. Yeah. It's such a confusing time because it's really been picked up as this buzzword. And it's not well defined oftentimes. If you really double click on it, it can be very complex. But in its very essence, it's sort of an agricultural practice. Through that practice of agriculture is increasing the life supporting capacity of that land through time. That sounds pretty basic. It's pretty novel for agriculture, though.
Justine Reichman: But here's the question, so what does that mean? If I wanted to practice regenerative agriculture, how do I take what you're saying and make it happen here at home? Or what questions would I ask if I go to the Farmers Market to find out if somebody practices this regenerative agriculture so that I could make sure that I'm either buying something from a farm that practices regenerative agriculture or practice it myself in my home. I know things, but I'm trying to make it so that if we have somebody listening that wants to make this tangible for themselves and figure out how to participate in this, they can.
Ryan Johnston: We can go down either one of those routes. This generally like the stance of how do we live regeneratively is super interesting, and it's great for people to start practicing in their backyard gardens. And I will say, I can see both sides of the coin as to whether it's really important to dial in and clearly define this as regenerative or not because we have to keep in mind that all of this is placed based. What is regenerative for you and your backyard quite literally might be different than your neighbor. And I'll explain why that is. But then you can then zoom out on that, and it's going to be farm by farm. They have to really kind of farm as a part of place to that notion of kind of reconnecting the parts that I was talking about with our products coming from California soils and making their way back to California.
So as we're thinking or putting those systems back together. So what is the agenda for you? Well, there's sort of biological parts of that, but I think there's this really exciting and I love food. It's like, again, it's about meaning making. It's like, what is it that makes you want to do that? What lights you up, makes you feel inspired, makes you drawn to go out and be a part of engaging in your backyard and growing food? For some people, there's some farmers or some gardeners, it's got to be spic and span. It's straight lines, everything is clean, everything is neat. All of the beans are in rows, and then the tomatoes are over there, the peppers are here. And that makes some people feel really great. And then there's the other kind of wild gardener. They're out there, and everything is kind of mixed together. And it's literally growing like a mosaic or forest garden. And they're layering all the parts. And there's not really a right or wrong, per se, and either one of those. We have to think about it through the lens of who I am, and what I am excited about in terms of regeneration.
To answer the question a little more specifically as it relates to maybe managing your soil, some of the things that we'd be looking for is through time. The soil organic matter, soil carbon is increasing. How do we do that? Well, one is adding compost back to the soil, disturbing it less. So that means less tillage. Typically, we want to keep living roots in the soil as much as possible. 30 to 70% of the carbon produced by the plant while it's photosynthesizing makes its way down to that plant, and then is excreted back into the soil to feed the soil microbes. But in doing so, it's also sequestering carbon. So it's sort of, again, putting these pieces back together and disturbing them less, then that comes to this oil. Does that answer your question a little bit?
"Food brands have this unique role to play like bridge builders to help people understand what's going on in their supply webs and how they can be part of the solution." -Ryan Johnston
Justine Reichman: It was a little bit of a detour. I think, at least the people that I talk to are super interested in how to do these things themselves as well. So now, if we get back to how you integrated this into your business, which you started to talk about, I'd love for you to go a little bit deeper into that and talk about the importance and the impact you hope that it has in your business in a global sense, and why it was so important to you.
Ryan Johnston: Yeah. For me, my Ark, this idea of regenerative design, regenerative living cultures has, I mentioned to you before we started recording, but I studied environmental studies in college, and business. I really wanted to integrate those two worlds. People were sort of like, those are so at odds with each other. But I was like, they have to see eye to eye, or they have to find common ground if we're going to be successful going forward. So that's been kind of part of my life mission. And in studying Environmental Studies, I left college with a ton of grief. I have this interdisciplinary download on the biggest challenges facing the planet. And it was just like, I was mad. To be really honest with you, I was mad about the planet I was inheriting. And where I sort of found grounding in a sense of purpose was in this broad notion of regenerative thinking, regenerative design. And so that was both on the landscape. So things like regenerative agriculture and permaculture, but also through architecture. And just looking at how we put those systems back together. I worked for some time educating in that space. I've worked as a farmer, actually managing orchards and operations. I've worked consulting with farmers to design these systems. But what got me really excited about running a food brand was that it touches on people, back to your initial question of like, people want to know about this stuff. But oftentimes, that happens out there on the landscape. And so food is this really cool opportunity to invite people to engage with it, and be a part of it. And so that's what I love, and I think food brands have this unique role to play like bridge builders to help people understand what's going on in their supply webs. And then as consuming those products, or again, turning around and using some of those practices at home, how can they be part of this solution.
Justine Reichman: I totally agree with you. It's an amazing opportunity to take what you're passionate about and be able to create that impact and get into people's homes and make meaning, as you were saying, with something you want to build. So tell me a little bit about building this business with your family. Was it just a no brainer? What was it like to come up with this idea and build it with your brother and father?
Ryan Johnston: It's continually one step in front of the other. You do these things that you're passionate about, and the market was excited about it. And so it went from Farmers Market's initially, and there was some excitement there. And then we got into retail, and we started distributing our products. And we've kind of built that out that way of just taking one step ahead of the other. And I will say that it's freaking hard. Working in the grocery landscape, I think people often see the products themselves and they get to the shelf and don't appreciate all the logistics and layers that happened behind the scenes on it. And the last two years of COVID and supply chain disruptions, that whole world has really been turned upside down. So our grandiose ambition here is that we can become a producer that is large enough, that we can then turn around and work with our suppliers and really give them contract opportunities to grow for us in these regenerative ways. How do we increase the demand for regeneratively grown products? Because it can happen on the landscape as a farmer.
Those farmers actually pay a premium sometimes, and then there's not necessarily a market for it. And so the brands are straddling those two worlds. Hopefully garnering the consumer interest in it, but then also working with the suppliers to make that demand and making those two pieces meet. And I think that's what's most exciting to us. The landscape of things, how we came into the business. I mean, for us, in some ways, it was a no brainer in the sense that we're using locally produced products. That's big for us. But in the space that we sit in, our products have at least half the sugar, the total sugar, of most of the kombucha in our category. And so gut health, metabolic health, low sugar, ingredient transparency, regional economies like these are these big trends that are tailwinds for Biotic and what we're up to. And for us, we have high conviction and all of those things. That said, their long term trends. I think that physics is in our favor, if you will, given what's going on the planet with climate change. A lot of these things will happen. The science behind gut health, the science behind metabolic health, and I say metabolic health, I mean, specifically, eating less sugar. Those things are pretty solid, but how long it takes us culturally to make that transition. No one can predict that, and that's the challenging thing as an entrepreneur. Timing is everything. Thankfully, each year, the science gets better. People seem more receptive to it, more traction for what we're doing. These are long term horizons that we're investing in.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I would agree. I think that you're in a market that has a lot of really big growth coming down the path as well. Given that you have half the amount of sugar that's very compelling, given that you're using all local ingredients, the juice, this and that, I think it makes it a unique product. I'm compelled, I want to try it.
Ryan Johnston: I'm gonna get you some.
Justine Reichman: You gotta get me some. Yes, I agree. I look forward to it. I'm curious, was your dad or your brother a former entrepreneur?
"We, as food brands, can do better. We can deliver higher quality products. We can work with fresher ingredients that are better sourced." -Ryan Johnston
Ryan Johnston: Yeah. Dad came to the business with 30 years of manufacturing experience. And I both started his own businesses and run businesses, not in the food space. That's sort of new for this generation that was picking that up. He was really kind of a core catalyst and saying, we can do this. We can figure out how to build this thing. Because it's also important to note that we're a little bit unique in the food space. There are many food businesses that start and they don't make what they sell. A lot of consumers don't realize that there's a whole world of contract manufacturing. You might have an idea to start a food brand and you go and find a contract manufacturer, and I want to make these peanut butter cups, that is the next thing. We're a bit unique, and we've actually built the manufacturing. We run our fermentation process, but we work with all fresh ingredients as well. And so everything is arriving fresh to us. The reason we do that is ultimately flavor and quality. I think that was one of the things that my brother and I are passionate about. I don't mean this as a call out for the food industry, but more of a call in like a column that we collectively can do better. We as food brands, we can do better. We can deliver higher quality products. We can work with fresher ingredients that are better sourced. It's one thing to point fingers and say that to other people. I think a more constructive stance is to actually build it and create a model and say, hey, check this out. This can be applied elsewhere as well. Sort of like Gandhi and be the change you want to see in the world. Right. That's kind of where that came from a lot of ways like, let's build this.
Justine Reichman: Yeah, I liked that quote. I'm curious, I got to ask, so what would your brother say if we asked him, what would he say about working with you?
Ryan Johnston: Our relationship has actually gotten better since working together. It's not always easy, by any means.
Justine Reichman: It's a challenge to work with family. I've worked with my mom for many years.
Ryan Johnston: It's a challenge and an incredible opportunity. There's not all the bullshit, for lack of a better term. We know each other like no one else knows each other. We've been adventure buddies since we were both born. We're two years apart. We've traveled extensively internationally together. We're really fortunate that way that we're good friends, friends and brothers. We thoroughly enjoy each other. And we're incredibly different. And like in business, that's actually pretty great. Because my brother would not want to be on this podcast talking right now. He's happy to be running from entry, and his real genius in the fermentation logistics, sourcing. Adam is wonderful at that. He's happy for Ryan to go out and talk, do these sort of things. And so it's pretty great in that way. We're both avid cooks, we're both avid gardeners, fly fisherman, foragers. So we have all these kind of touch points of things we enjoy doing together. And that's pretty cool. So when it comes to new flavor creation and stuff, we really see eye to eye on that in a lot of ways. I run my own fermentation business, as well as a cider maker, as well coming into this.
Justine Reichman: Did you taste things, samplings when you're tasting all the new flavors?
Ryan Johnston: Of course. We spend a lot of time doing that. I'll send them down to you.
Justine Reichman: I want to come to taste things. It's a really pointed question. I want to taste things. Tasting, samplings.
Ryan Johnston: I'm excited to share with you, we have a new passion fruit mandarin flavor there. Scratching our own itch for us having traveled to South America and Southeast Asia. We love passion fruit so much. That's the first fruit we're gonna go eat when we go there. I was in Mexico myself two weeks ago.
Justine Reichman: Did you love it?
Ryan Johnston: It was fantastic. Ready to have our first little one in two months, and so we stepped away for a little baby moon.
Justine Reichman: Congratulations. That's very exciting. Well, it sounds like you guys are all very different with very different experiences, which is really great. I asked from personal experience when I worked for my mom, and I worked for my mom because it was her business. She had like 45 employees. I came in after college, and I worked in every little aspect. I answered phones, and then I did this, and then I did research. And then I did sales, and then I was VP. But I could never call her mom in the office. It was like a really weird thing. We would go to client meetings and I could never call her. It was just so odd, I couldn't call her mom. I couldn't call her Susan. I just said, excuse me. So I asked, what you refer to your dad.
Ryan Johnston: Different generations. We're pretty casual. We really reminisce about a family business, and that extends to the few employees we have as well. We're pretty close. And we all genuinely enjoy spending time with each other outside of work as well, and so we're pretty fortunate in that way. We call him dad, definitely.
Justine Reichman: Definitely. If you go to a meeting with clients, you're still calling him dad?
Ryan Johnston: Sure. Dad doesn't come to the meetings too often anymore. The boys are really running it. Thankfully, well, good for him. I should say, I stepped into retirement. So that's pretty awesome. Adam and I are really running it.
Justine Reichman: Okay, well, that's good. I had to ask because I gotta tell you, I tortured myself over this for years. I just feel like, excuse me. But I was very young. I didn't want the whole nepotism, and even though I had to work my way up, I just don't care. This is clearly your business too, so it's not like you had that same issue. So in any case, if people want to find your product, where can they find it?
Ryan Johnston: The best thing, depending on the color, or they're listening from is just check on our website, bioticferments.com, and you'll find our page on there. And that's got an interactive map. We're in about 425 retail stores across the West Coast. People are drinking Biotic up in Alaska, Hawaii and then Southern California. So that's pretty cool. If I had to choose one right now, I'd say my favorite flavor is the new one that we just released, the Passion Fruit Mandarin.
Justine Reichman: Okay. Do you have anything new in the pipeline coming down that you want to share with us?
"People's flavors are changing, and they're excited to try things new and different." -Ryan Johnston
Ryan Johnston: The new flavors, the big one. I'd say the other thing for those folks that live in the Bay Area is that we're just starting to put our product on tap as well. This is near and dear to my heart at the moment since my wife is pregnant. You often go to a bar and there's this amazing list of beer, wine, cider, awesome cocktails, sometimes kombucha if you're lucky. But oftentimes, you don't even have kombucha. For the non-alcoholic, it's like sparkling water and sodas. And so to bring this sort of craft fermented product that matches up with all the beautiful alcoholic versions, which I'm a fan of as well, I think it's gonna be really cool. And there's been a really great initial reception for that. So keep an eye out for that, keep an eye out for kvass. It's worth saying as well. We started with five gallon bucket batches and sold them at Farmers Market's, and it's really exciting to say that we're now the biggest kvass producer in the United States at this point. And that category is actually growing really steadily. It's the fastest growing product type within refrigerated fermented beverage, which is kind of the bigger category that kombucha sets in. So that's pretty cool. People's flavors are changing, and they're excited to try new and different things that are kind of outside of traditional kombucha.
Justine Reichman: That's amazing. Well, Ryan, thank you so much for joining me. I'm excited to try more of your product or some of your products. I hope that our guests enjoy it. What's the best place for them to check you out, just so you can say it for those listening.
Ryan Johnston: Absolutely. Check bioticferments.com, Biotic Ferments.
Justine Reichman: For those viewing it or looking at our show notes, we'll make sure to put it all in the show notes for you. But thank you to our guests for tuning in, and thank you Ryan for joining me. It's always nice to have our guests here for our viewers to tune in, so thank you very much.
Ryan Johnston: Thank you for the opportunity.
