S9 Ep37: Beyond the Basket: The Secret Ingredient to Building a Regenerative Community with Wen-Jay Ying
“It's having a genuine interest in your consumers, not just a transactional experience— That is the best way to build community.” —Wen-Jay Ying
“It's having a genuine interest in your consumers, not just a transactional experience— That is the best way to build community.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Building a thriving community takes more than just a shared interest— it requires genuine connections, a sense of belonging, and a shared vision for a better future. In an age of impersonal online interactions, the power of face-to-face relationships and supporting local businesses has never been more important. Discover how one entrepreneur is redefining the way we think about community through the lens of food.
Wen-Jay Ying is the founder and CEO of Local Roots, a community-driven and minority-owned company in New York City. With over 14 years of experience in the local food movement, Wen-Jay continues to innovate and find new ways to connect people to their food sources.
Tune in as Justine and Wen-Jay share insights on traditional and online marketing strategies, operational models, the evolution of the local food movement, overcoming common entrepreneurial challenges, reflections on closing the business, and building community and customer relationships.
Connect with Wen-Jay:
Wen-Jay Ying is the founder and CEO of Local Roots, a community-driven and minority-owned company in New York City. Wen-Jay started Local Roots in 2011 with the goal of making high-quality local and organic ingredients more accessible and convenient for New Yorkers. Under her leadership, Local Roots has grown into a trusted source for seasonal, regeneratively-grown produce and other local food products.
Wen-Jay is passionate about education, transparency, and empowering consumers to make better food choices. With over 14 years of experience in the local food movement, Wen-Jay continues to innovate and find new ways to connect people to their food sources.
Episode Highlights:
01:51 Local Roots: Modernized CSA
04:15 Initial Marketing a Community Building
09:26 Operational Model and Customer Experience
14:37 The Evolution of the Local Food Movement
18:11 Overcoming Financial, Structural, and Operational Challenges
25:01 The Emotional Process of Closing a Business
32:03 Tips on Building a Community
Tweets:
What if the key to building a thriving customer base wasn't just about the products, but the relationships you foster? Uncover the unexpected benefits of prioritizing genuine connections in your business model in this week’s episode with @jreichman and Local Roots Founder, Wen-Jay Ying. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #Season9 #LocalFood #CommunityBuilding #SupportLocalBusiness #RegenerativeAgriculture #FoodTransparency #EntrepreneurLife #SmallBusinessOwner #FoodMovement #CSA #UrbanFarming #SustainableEats #EthicalConsumption #FoodEducation #GrassrootsMarketing
Inspirational Quotes:
01:16 “Businesses, when we start them as an entrepreneur, we have to be open to change.” —Justine Reichman
07:07 “Fliers are like a lost art form… I still think they're important because people are tired of seeing things on their phone.” —Wen-Jay Ying
08:29 “People are choosing to educate as opposed to do traditional advertising.” —Justine Reichman
08:42 “There's so much misinformation on the internet that it dilutes the people who are really trying to have an authentic voice.” —Wen-Jay Ying
12:13 “Different colors have different nutrients in it. So if we can diversify the colors that we're giving— you're also able to provide something that's more nutritious to the consumer.” —Wen-Jay Ying
23:00 “It's not just that it's better for you nutritionally to diversify what you're eating, it's better nutritionally for the farm also.” —Wen-Jay Ying
24:54 “More is better in terms of access, but doesn't always mean the quality is the same.” —Wen-Jay Ying
26:38 “It's having a genuine interest in your consumers, not just a transactional experience— That is the best way to build community.” —Wen-Jay Ying
34:28 “Don't let your ego come into it. A lot of people hold on to their businesses out of pride. If it's not serving you and you're not happy doing it anymore, there's no point of doing it.” —Wen-Jay Ying
36:32 “You can still find joy in closing down your business. You're still serving your mission, but it doesn't have to be specifically in the same exact way you were doing it.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Transcription:
Justine Reichman: Good morning, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. With me today is Wen-Jay. She is the Founder and CEO of Local Roots in New York City. Local Roots is a community driven and minority owned company building, a movement towards supporting a regenerative community. We're so pleased to have you here.
Wen-Jay, welcome.
Wen-Jay Ying: I love that introduction. I feel like it's the most concise that someone's given me.
“Businesses, when we start them as an entrepreneur, we have to be open to change.” —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: Thank you. I appreciate that. I actually ask guests to introduce themselves because I like to hear what guests have to say, but I want to give people a 360 view. So as we dip into the conversation so they know what we're talking about, we can continue by asking you more in depth questions to go deeper and learn more about your company, and why you started it. What's changed? How you're pivoting, if you're pivoting? And what people can expect for the future? Because I know that businesses, when we start them as an entrepreneur, we have to be open to change. And I think it's really important to share those stories and talk about how the environment, the world, and education supports us to create change for the better. And to be able to say that we didn't succeed at what we were doing, it's not that it wasn't right. It was right at that moment. But now, we've learned more. I'm excited to hear your story, We.-Jay, so tell me about Local Roots, and what inspired you to launch that?
Wen-Jay Ying: So I started Local Roots in 2011. It has been for the past nearly 14 years, essentially like a modernized CSA. So that stands for Community Supported Agriculture. People don't know that it's essentially like a subscription based farmers market. And my goal was really to make the access in New York to the best quality ingredients from local farms easier, more convenient, more fun, more playful. At that time in 2011, this was not a thing people did, really. There was a very small niche of people that went to the Farmers Market's or joined CSA's. And me as someone who did not look like most people that were in those areas in that community, it was also important for me to show people like, if you want to eat well, healthy, organic and local, it doesn't matter what you look like. So that's how I started. That's why I started Local Roots, essentially.
And essentially, it was also because that's my dream job, which was to create CSAs for my life for a living, denying this anywhere in the world. And the only way I could have my dream job was essentially just to make it my own, and start my own business. So that's really where and why I started my company. And it wasn't really an idea to start a business. I knew that I wanted to be a small business instead of a nonprofit. And the reason for that was I had been at a nonprofit previously through AmeriCorps. And through a nonprofit, the process is a little slower. I think you have to go through the board, you have to get things approved a lot more. And for me, I like to make quick changes. So to me, it was important to be a small business, and also not depend completely on donors and grants. So that's why I chose a small business as a nonprofit. But even though I had an LLC name and filed as an LLC, I really didn't process that. It was a business until four years in. And even now, it's kind of funny to think about because I'm not a business person to consider this a business. It really does feel like a movement that needs to make money to keep it funded.
Justine Reichman: And when you started this, it sounds like you didn't see people that looked like yourself. It wasn't available, and it was something that you really wanted to create on a personal level. And what was your process in terms of going out there to see how this idea resonated with other folks? What was the feedback you got?
Wen-Jay Ying: I didn't do any surveys like that. I didn't even think about it, honestly. I didn't think, are people gonna like this? I didn't once question it. It was like you said, I wanted access to better quality food. I wanted New Yorkers that had better access to quality food. There weren't enough people that looked like me that felt comfortable in those spaces at the time. There's a quote that David Chang had said in a book. And he also, I think, read through a Steve Martin quote that, if I knew how hard it was going to be, I never would have done it. So I didn't really put that much thought into it in the beginning. I just did it because I wanted to do it. And also, I was really missing the community. I was playing in a lot of underground music scenes, and that's where my community was built in New York City. And when gentrification happened, a lot of those establishments that hosted these underground music concerts closed down. I didn't have community, so it really was something I was just very intrinsically and innately drawn to. I was also at an age where I felt like I had, I was like 25. Like all the time in the world. I didn't think about it. But what I did was I started my LLC, came up with a business name with some friends and very grassroots. I put flyers everywhere. And it wasn't like, are you interested in this? It was like, we're open for business. Join the CSA. I put flyers up every single day for years throughout the neighborhoods. I would have my friend who worked at her office, like she would print out hundreds of flyers from me for free so I didn't pay for anything. The only thing I was paying for was tape in my time. And I learned that from playing in a band, if you want to promote your music, again, this is really hard to imagine because of how intense social media is now. But back then, which wasn't that long ago. 2011, you literally advertised your band's show with the flyer, right? Or maybe like a MySpace post, but that was pretty much it. So that's the only way I knew how to advertise, and that's really the only way to advertise outside. Like putting a newspaper ad out.
Justine Reichman: It seems like those days of putting up flyers almost seem like a distant memory at this moment in time with everything that's going on with social media. How does that translate today? Does it still work this way? Or have you had to evolve with social media taking such a large presence?
“Fliers are like a lost art form… I still think they're important because people are tired of seeing things on their phone.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Wen-Jay Ying: Yeah, I really think flyers are like a lost art form. I still love going to a cafe and looking at the Community Board. Because it does make it feel more of a community when you see this person's advertising piano lessons, this person who can walk your dog. So we still do flyers. I still think they're important, because I think people are tired of seeing things on their phone. And it's just like another way of seeing something. I've honestly never been big into ADS. I don't really know if the little money I would put into would actually be effective. So maybe I have made like one Instagram ad in 14 years. I may have boosted a post like five times, and I put like 20 bucks into it. I think the way that I use social media is really just like education. So it's like, this is what this vegetable looks like, and this is what it tastes like. Or here's how to cook this thing. Or this is what your farm looks like. Or here's on my own personal page. It's very much like, here's this food topic that when I tell you about it, it'll help you feel more connected to your food, or create more transparency around the products at the grocery store that you're looking at. So I use social media as a way of education. Which, I think, is also a tool of marketing in the end.
Justine Reichman: And I really dig now. People are choosing to educate, as opposed to doing traditional advertising.
Wen-Jay Ying: Yeah. And the problem with that, though, is I don't know how much research people do before they educate people. There's so much misinformation on the internet that it dilutes the people who are really trying to have an authentic voice. And that, I think, is a dangerous thing. Instagram, I think, when it first started was an amazing tool for small businesses. Now, I actually don't think it's effective. I don't know, I think it creates a world where people value the instant gratification of an Instagram post versus the quality of a product or service. And that, I think, creates a downfall of small businesses or businesses in general.
“There's so much misinformation on the internet that it dilutes the people who are really trying to have an authentic voice.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Justine Reichman: Yeah. So now, with that being said, would you say that education is at the forefront of your marketing initiatives as a way to educate, sell and develop community?
Wen-Jay Ying: It is. And I don't know if that's technically from a business standpoint, the most effective way. But being seen as a company that people can trust, and people viewing me as an expert in my field is very important to me, because I don't ever cut corners for money. I will always be authentic to the kinds of farms we work with, the ways that we speak with our customers. So that reputation is really important to me. And that education, to me, is very connected to that reputation. And in the end, again, not the most business savvy part of what I do. But in the end, I sell a product that feels kind of weird to charge people flooding before. Theoretically, everyone should have access to really high quality, local, clean, regeneratively grown ingredients. The government should make it a way for that to be free. That will never happen. In that moralistic value of what I believe it, I'd rather have people have the knowledge and the education around how to make better food choices. Even if it's not buying products from Local Roots, especially because we are hyper local. We only serve the New York City demographic region. I think it does a disservice to the world if someone from California or Seattle doesn't have that knowledge just because they're not a consumer of ours.
Justine Reichman: How far out do you go to the farmer? So what's the radius to which you work within?
Wen-Jay Ying: Usually within two hours of New York.
Justine Reichman: And so when people order these boxes, I would imagine, is it seasonal?
Wen-Jay Ying: It goes all year round, and everything's based on the seasons.
Justine Reichman: Do people know what they're getting? Is it a surprise? Can you choose how customizable they are?
Wen-Jay Ying: It's kind of like a hybrid. So meaning, you can customize the categories of food. Meaning like, vegetables, mushrooms, fruit. But you can't customize what you're getting in that selection. So if it's vegetables, I'm going to be curating. I'm the one that personally curates what five items you're getting from the farm that week, and which kind of mushrooms you're getting that week. But I know that I put a lot of thought into how to curate that for people.
Justine Reichman: How do you choose those five items? What are your benchmarks, or your parameters for making that choice?
“Different colors have different nutrients in it. So if we can diversify the colors that we're giving— you're also able to provide something that's more nutritious to the consumer.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Wen-Jay Ying: I think about it from the standpoint of a home cook in New York. So can this fit in my fridge? Because we have small fridges and kitchens in New York, and then a balance of things like fruit, vegetables, leafy greens, alliums like onions and garlic, and color, because different colors have different nutrients in it. So if we can diversify the colors that we're giving, purple carrots to obviously like rainbow swiss chard, you're also able to provide something that's more nutritious to the consumer.
Justine Reichman: And so are people ordering this weekly, biweekly, bimonthly?
Wen-Jay Ying: People get their Local Roots harvest box every single week, and they can put it on hold whenever they want. New Yorkers often travel. Or if they're super busy at work, they can put their order on hold, which is a great thing. Because with the original CSA model, one restriction is that it is a commitment, and there's no way to put that thing on hold. So if you can't pick up your CSA box, you usually just have a neighbor pick it up for you, and you just donate it is one of those two options. But this gives people more flexibility in terms of that subscription model.
Justine Reichman: How accessible are they to pick up? It's not delivery, you're saying. So it's not going to end up at my apartment on 60 Wall Street or whatever?
Wen-Jay Ying: It could. So if you were a consumer, you go through our website, you select which kind of Harvest Club box you want. I want veggies and fruit. I want veggies, fruit and mushrooms. And then you can check out opting for either home delivery or pickup. So home delivery, there is a charge. We're not on Amazon. People should remember that we are a small business. We're not going to do free delivery. That's not actually economical for any small business. It's also economical for Amazon. They're just losing a lot of money intentionally for that. Or you can do pickup where it's just free. We have a couple pickup locations in different bars and cafes throughout New York City. So say that you would go to the local coffee shop you partner with, and you'd pick up your box there. The reason why we partner with neighborhood bars and cafes is, one, to support those small businesses, but it's also to create a different experience in grocery shopping. So instead of having a CSA, I picked it up at a church. But you can't really talk to people at a church because you have to. You feel like you have to be quiet. So I wanted it to be a place that was already a social setting for people that was part of their weekly lifestyle, and that's where you can pick up your food. And then we also sometimes offer recipes. So we'll give you ideas of what to cook, or I'll handle Instagram. So if you're like, what is this thing? I don't know how to use it. I'll message you back some ideas.
Justine Reichman: So as you were building this business, when you first kicked it off, you said CSAs were not really a thing there. It was not quite the same as it is today. How have you seen the industry grow, and your role in it?
Wen-Jay Ying: Yeah. Just to clarify. CSAs were introduced to New York City or introduced to America, I think, in Massachusetts where they first came to. Massachusetts in the 80's, and so we have had CSAs in New York for a while. It's more that it used to be very much a subculture. There weren't as many people that were younger or even minorities feeling, I think, approachable in those situations in those communities. But local and organic was not really a thing. Meaning, you couldn't just go to the grocery store and find these products there. There wasn't a Whole Foods in every borough. That's when it was not owned by Amazon. So buying local ingredients by thinking about organic was not as commonplace in people's minds. And it's really crazy. I was talking to a friend about this yesterday who I know through the local food world, and we were just talking about how much he was reminding me of how much it has changed, and how different it was when I started this. And which is the reason why I didn't start my company, and how I probably had a hand in changing the industry. I'm not someone very much to have an ego or brag about what I have accomplished. But all I know is that this was not a thing people, like most people, thought about, and now it is right.
We've had thousands of thousands of customers come through local roots. All those people were essentially, like some of them, their first introduction to the worlds of local food, many of them know what the word regenerative is because I talk about it all the time. A lot of the education I have, I've had customers for 14 years, every single week as customers, and they're like, oh, yeah. I remember when you talked about making a veggie scrap broth six years ago. And I still do that. I remember a friend that worked at a large fashion brand telling me, we were in a meeting and we had a mood board of how we want the brand to be for next year. And Local Roots is actually up there, part of the mood board.
Justine Reichman: Wow, that's amazing.
Wen-Jay Ying: Which is amazing to hear. I was like, are you sure that was me? But yeah, I think it is cool to think about how my mission to make this more common place has been accomplished after 14 years. And it's weird. It's just kind of a funny catch playing too. You helped grow the movement. Part of me is like, it's not just selling organic, local food, right? It's also making it fun. It's making it sexy. It's like making it playful, where it is part of your social life. And now I think organic and local is like that. And yeah, it's like you create a world where it's more mainstream, but that also means you're essentially creating your own competitors. We're in a place where I don't want to have to compete with a Whole Foods, which is impossible. So it's kind of like this ironic situation of being one of the first game changers in an industry of where it places you in that.
Justine Reichman: What role do you think Farmers Market's play for you as a business?
Wen-Jay Ying: I love Farmers Markets. I think I view our businesses to actually be so, I think they complement each other. Meaning, a lot of farmers will diversify the way they sell their vegetables or food. Farmers Markets are great because you can have that direct connection with your own consumers. Every single week, normally. But in a Farmers Market situation, if it's raining that day, no one shows up, and then you have all the food waste. Or people will still select the things they want, and they probably always pick the most familiar things. And so if you have a massive crop like rutabaga, and most people don't know how to cook rutabaga in New York, you're going to be wasting a lot of that product. So I view Farmers Market's, and it's kind of funny because I view them as being convenient in different ways. So a Farmers Market is very convenient in the sense of, you can pick what you want, you have a larger selection of farmers to talk to. You have a larger window usually from the morning until whatever, 3:00 pm. With Local Roots and the CSA model, the reason why I think it's convenient is that someone's hand curates it for you so you don't just think about what you're going to buy. I like that as it is diverse, it's different items every single week so it forces you to diversify your nutrients and what you're cooking every single week.
I cook things based on what's in season. I never cook things based on a recipe. I'll never go buy a vegetable just for my recipe. It's like, all right, I have these items in my fridge from the farmers, I want to make something with this. I find that to me to be more convenient the way I cook. And it is within your schedule. You're not having to take the subway to go to the Farmers Market. I can go two blocks down to my bar, grab a drink with a friend, and also pick up my vegetables, fruits, meats and my cheese. And also, I'm not at all throwing shade to Farmers Market. It is just good to think about how not every vendor at a Farmers Market is organic, or is 100 and grass fed. There's a lot of different kinds of growing practices happening at the Farmers Market. So unless you're doing your own research, and unless you know what to look for, it's just more effort, I think, versus I spend so much time looking for Local Roots finding farmers that really hit the highest sustainability growing practices on a farm.
Justine Reichman: If you look at other cities, New York is unique, right? Because you want to stay within your area when you're going grocery shopping. I don't want to schlep all the way to the Upper East Side to go get something, or the Upper West Side. It takes you like an hour, right? You got to carry it in a bag. I remember having a shopping cart, but that was only to go a block or two. You remember those little carts for your groceries? And I think about where I live today. I live in Marin County where there is a Farmers Market every single day of the week in one of the towns here, locally. Which is not something that every county has. Unusual success. And I remember living in New York where I would go to the Union Square Market, because I live near Union Square, and I would pick up my things that I had from my vendors, and that I would do the rest from, oh, my god, Fresh Direct. I like going back a while. But you didn't have that same connection with the farmers and the ranchers that you do, or even the connection like you're providing. And it doesn't give you the way to focus on locally sourced, locally grown products. I remember it really just being about whatever I wanted to eat, I would make because it's always available. But I think this really supports a more regenerative, organic, local culture. I think you really did have a hand in building that in the New York area. Because I moved out here, and it was like second nature. But back then when I lived in New York, it was kind of like Farmers Market's, there's one on the Upper West Side, there was one in Union Square. They were there. They weren't there, kind of thing. And I really think the movement and the community has really connected with what you and others have brought to the community, and allowed us to change the narrative, and really empower people to make more informed choices.
“It's not just that it's better for you nutritionally to diversify what you're eating, it's better nutritionally for the farm also.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Wen-Jay Ying: Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. When you're talking about that, I was thinking about, when I keep talking about people getting products that they wouldn't normally pick out, like the rutabaga, it's not just that it's better for your nutrition to diversify what you're eating. It's better nutritionally for the farm also. So if a farmer knows that, like regenerative, organic, local vegetables, part of growing those growing patches means that they have diverse crops growing on a farm. The different kinds of vegetables, varieties, the different kinds of root systems will all affect and enhance the soil nutrition, which makes your vegetable more nutritious and more flavorful. Now imagine if you have to grow diverse vegetables and crops, but you can't sell half of them because they're just not popular. Then you're wasting so much money. But in the world of a CSA, you're able to educate and introduce people to these varieties that help a farm, and you would never have a thing to buy for yourself. But then you're like, oh, my god, I love romanesco. This is the coolest vegetable. I love rutabaga, it's like a potato.
And I do have a lot of customers in the beginning that were really like, this reminds me so much. I'm so happy you guys exist in New York. I just moved here. This reminds me so much of California, upstate New York, Europe, and I can't find anything else like this in New York. And I think that is really cool. And now that we do home delivery, it is literally like you don't have to even leave your door, and you get everything sent to you. And I used to live in North Hollywood, and there was a Farmers Market there, but it just didn't have a large, different Farmers Market. Union Square is massive, and you can go small, like two vendors. And if they don't have the growing practices you want, or they don't have the most flavorful products, I would always drive to either the one in Santa Monica or the one in Hollywood because it was a lot bigger, and they had amazing farmers there. So yes, sometimes, more isn't always better. It is, more is better in terms of access. More Farmers Market is easier to get to, but doesn't always mean the qualities is the same.
Justine Reichman: I'd like to go back to the community that you've built, and maybe if you could give us like three things, three ideas for those founders tuning in that would really be useful for them as they're trying to build their community. Because building community is really challenging, and you've done such a great job. So if you could just maybe share a few things?
Wen-Jay Ying: There's really no formula for building community. And if you think about it just in the sense of, I need to build a community to have a good business. It's just never gonna work. It's a very slow process. But a lot of people, I think, were loyal customers, and have been loyal customers to me for 14 years every week. And I think a lot of that is the connection they have to me. It's like, I support this business, because I support the business owner. And that really comes down to like, for the first 10 years or so, I was at every Local Roots pickup. Meaning that I created every single customer every single week in every neighborhood we were in. In every single borough we were in when we first started doing home deliveries, I was the one to deliver them so I know everyone's schedule in terms of like, when they're coming back from. If they're gonna open the door and like they're in their yoga pants because they just came back from yoga class, or they just came back from work. And it really is just like thinking about your consumers as your friends. Checking in on them, remembering things like, how is that worth meeting you had last week? We were talking about it. It's just having a genuine interest in your consumers, and it's not this transactional experience. And that, to me, is the best way to build community. I think just having your space there.
“It's having a genuine interest in your consumers, not just a transactional experience— That is the best way to build community.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Justine Reichman: Because it becomes personal then, right? I like you. I want to support you. I like your choices. I like how you educate me. I like the products you bring. I think it's the intersection of you and your products, and where they come together because they've now come to trust you for picking the right things, and giving them the information, and establishing a rapport. Now it feels like it's attainable, and you're accessible, as is the food. The winning combination, right? So as we look forward, because that was like the last 13 years, where are you today with the business? And what are you looking to do as you see the industry changing?
Wen-Jay Ying: The industry has changed so much. Not just the food industry and organic industry, but the industry is just being, a business has changed so much that I am moving away from that farm box CSA program we've been doing for 14 years. And it feels as if we're almost closing the company down and then letting it regrow to something else. So there's definitely a lot of transition happening at Local Roots. But the ones that always stay the same is that focus on whatever I'm doing. Whatever Local Roots is doing is always going to be focused around connecting people closer to their food, creating more transparency around food, and really empowering people and getting them excited about a local food system.
Justine Reichman: What impact did you make to make this change to close that down and now look for a new way to evolve?
Wen-Jay Ying: A more thorough answer is on my Instagram, but I will mention a couple things from that post I made on Instagram. One thing is the overhead and expenses. Post pandemic are just so high. I have survived so many things as a business owner. From day one, we had Hurricane Irene hit upstate New York, which hit a lot of farmers. There's always something big to get over. We hustled and worked our asses off during the pandemic, which was the hardest time as a business. And a very hard time as essential workers also, and we survived that. And then post pandemic is a world that a lot of people probably can't understand, that it's how different it is. Unless you're probably a business owner, everything is higher. Insurance rates are higher, obviously rental increases. That's to be expected. All these things keep adding up. The city keeps adding more different kinds of taxes, whatever they can throw at you. All of that is just like, obviously, one, it's not even financially viable anymore for me. But also it's like, I don't even want to deal with those things anymore. I have tried. I've had to overcome so many challenges in 14 years that I'm just exhausted with it. And if I can achieve my goal of educating people more about their food and their food systems, I can do it in a way that isn't so operationally heavy. That's what I'm trying to do. The kind of work I do maintains so much. It's just so much everything.
You're managing cars, doing deliveries, and a million things can go wrong. In a route in New York, you're dealing with a very large expensive walking cooler, and your warehouse, lots of staff. And I want to do things in a way that's a little easier now that I'm getting older and I don't feel like working every single day. I think it's expected for business owners to always have to go into work on the day off, or be all the time. I don't think that's really fair, and I don't think that has to happen. I don't want to live a lifestyle where that's expected for me anymore. I did that for so long, I don't enjoy it anymore. I didn't mind it for the first 10 years. Now I'm like, NO, I get to also have a day off. So that's a huge part. And the ways that I and the consumers interact with the product is really different. Now also, we used to have these super Die Hard Local Food People who love learning about the farmers. And there was more, I think, understanding and compassion around the local food system. And I'm not saying that all my new customers are like this past post pandemic, but there is a difference. I think the Amazons of the world have really changed what consumers expect. I was like trying to reference before free delivery where you can deliver product almost anywhere in this country overnight is now what we all expect. But it's not something realistic for most businesses to do, but we're expected to do that.
Justine Reichman: Is this a hard decision for you to make? Effectively, this is your baby. You've grown it for 14 years, and you developed it. Was it hard for me to make that call?
Wen-Jay Ying: Yeah. I think I will write about this because there's a lot of stages of closing down a company emotionally. There's the acceptance of it, and the deep sadness. It's not just a business to me or even like a passion. And it was my life. I have such a strong connection to those customers and to our farmers. So I had a period of, once I decided to do this, I was very, very sad and nostalgic. I spent so much energy and time building this, and it's something I'm so proud of. It's such a special thing to be able to do something like this. I've realized that I created my own food system, which sounds crazy. Who else gets to create their own food system? It's insane. So I had a sad feeling. I had a different kind of sadness like, oh, my God. Am I a failure? Did I not do a good job? And the reason why we're closing is because I couldn't figure it out, will I be good at anything? What am I gonna do now? And then there's the feelings of, wait, I'm a badass because I did all this stuff and that was really hard. And people don't realize how hard it is, and they probably will never realize how hard it is. And then there's also feelings of excitement. Everything has a time and place. You're saying when I started this, that I started because this didn't exist anywhere in the world. This kind of business and this kind of job. And now that I've established that, and now that I have so much more knowledge in this field, now I can take all that and move on to something else, and innovate and create something else new. And that is also what I'm excited about. The idea of constantly innovating not just myself, but also innovating the industry, is exciting to me. So, yeah, there's a lot to like, everything.
Justine Reichman: It's a hard decision to close down a company that you've worked so hard for many years, and you've innovated and inspired, and people have grown to rely on. So for those founders, I always like to ask for researchers, or innovators, or people out there that have been running something for years and are toying with, should I continue? Or how do I know when the right time to pivot or move on? What tips might you give them? Maybe you could throw out three tips of things that they could look for.
“Don't let your ego come into it. A lot of people hold on to their businesses out of pride. If it's not serving you and you're not happy doing it anymore, there's no point of doing it.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Wen-Jay Ying: Don't let your ego come into it. I think a lot of people hold on to their businesses because of pride, or they just don't want to think that they just didn't do a good job at something. If it's not serving you and you're not happy doing it anymore, there's no point of doing it. You just close it. And I think it's also important to think about what skill sets you have gained and enhanced through this job, through your business? Because there is a world where you, some people, are okay working for someone else. Like, I'm not sure if I'm the best at that. But yeah, not everyone is. But some business owners are really good at that, and actually don't like the pressure of making every single decision for themselves. So you just make a list of like, okay, these are all the tasks that I would do in a day, and I must be pretty good at them if a whole business was operating with me doing them. And that's a really great way to find your next part of life. And that makes them more okay to close down your company knowing that there is another career path for yourself.
And I guess the third point is, I really looked to close my business down as I really looked at the outline, the blueprint of what mattered the most to me. I would say that I don't need to be having the business where I'm ordering the food, talking to the farmers, packing the food, delivering the food, doing the customer service. I'm literally still the one doing a lot of the deliveries. I'm still doing a lot of those things. I'm doing social media. If my goal in the end, if my largest large means zoom out the most. My goal is, I want people to have the knowledge, or have a better way to get to have higher quality food. That's very wordy. But what is another way I can do that is a little easier, that is a little cheaper, that can operate a little smoother that doesn't have a million different moving parts? So I think you can still find joy in closing down your business. Maybe starting something new. Maybe it can be a little easier, and you're still serving your mission. But it doesn't have to be specifically in the same exact way you were doing it.
“You can still find joy in closing down your business. You're still serving your mission, but it doesn't have to be specifically in the same exact way you were doing it.” —Wen-Jay Ying
Justine Reichman: That makes sense. Did you think about selling the business?
Wen-Jay Ying: I literally just don't know how to do that.
Justine Reichman: Okay. Well, maybe there's somebody listening today that hears your story, and maybe you can share some insights. So we can ask our guests and our listeners, if you guys have any ideas on directions to share with Wen-Jay about how to sell her business, how could they reach out to you?
Wen-Jay Ying: It would be great if they reached out to me on LinkedIn .Or better yet, actually an Instagram. It's my first and last name, so it's W-E-N-J-A-Y-Y-I-N-G. And yeah, I would love to hear people's stories about selling their business, because it is 14 years of building this up. I would like to hear stories about how to monetize that 14 years of experience in ways that are ethical too, right? Because my customers are very important to me, and I would never want to lose that trust in them.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Wen-Jay, thank you so much for tuning in today and for sharing your stories. And we'll continue to follow you as you pivot, change and continue to educate and support your community.
Wen-Jay Ying: Thank you, and thank you for wearing a mogul with pink color.
Justine Reichman: I will do my best. I didn't imagine. I want to thank our guests for tuning in today. We have our episodes here every Tuesday. They are new every week. If you're watching us on a videogram, you're probably watching us on YouTube, but do know that you can listen to us on a podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts, at Essential Ingredients. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram to hear clips and insights from our guests about what is coming up next. Our Instagram handle is @essential.ingredients. See you next week. Bye, bye.
