S7 Ep6: The Dirtbag Diaries: Chronicling the True Saga of Building a Better-For-You Snack Brand with Mark Gravel
“Don’t let these things stop you. Figure out how to work with them.” — Mark Gravel
In the volatile world of CPG branding, establishing a successful better-for-you brand may often feel like treading on eggshells. While the steep slopes can hefty baggage are indeed formidable, the right strategies can tip the scales in your favor.
Dirtbag Bar is an organic, vegan, gluten-free chocolate date bar created by Mark Gravel. Inspired by his passion for the outdoors and healthy living, Mark developed Dirtbag Bar as a clean, nutrient-dense snack without added sugars or refined ingredients. Starting as a homemade treat shared among friends, Dirtbag Bar has expanded to over 75 stores across California. In addition to wholesome ingredients, Dirtbag Bar supports causes like mental health awareness and environmental protection.
This conversation provides insight into entrepreneurship and wellness. Listen in as Mark relates the challenges of transitioning from chef to building a CPG brand and his personal struggles with mental health and how it impacts running a startup. Justine and Mark also talk about the aspects of product development like deciding on the branding and design, expanding your reach, the value of varied experiences, the importance of taking care of yourself as an entrepreneur, and more.
Connect with Mark:
Mark Gravel is the founder of Dirtbag Bar, an organic, vegan, gluten-free chocolate date bar. He started making the bars for himself as a snack while running a food stand at Smorgasburg, a seasonal food market in New York. Mark has a background in food, having worked as a chef, running a burger pop-up, and published a cookbook about beans. While the burger stand was successful, Mark wanted to create something healthier without added sugars. He developed Dirtbag Bar to be nutrient-dense but not too calorie-dense, using whole food ingredients. Mark strives to make the brand purpose-driven by donating to mental health causes. As an entrepreneur, his biggest challenge is managing his own mental health struggles with depression while running a stressful business. Dirtbag Bar is currently in over 75 stores in California with a goal of 100 by the end of the year as Mark works to expand distribution on the East Coast.
Connect with DirtBag Bar:
Episode Highlights:
01:26 Why Gluten-Free and Vegan
05:17 From Chef to Entrepreneur
09:39 Developing the Dirtbag Brand Identity
14:30 Goals for the Coming Years
19:25 The Value of Varied Experiences
22:05 Coping with Mental Health Challenges
24:19 Don't Let Challenges Stop You
Tweets:
Turn your passion for healthy snacks into a thriving CPG biz. Join @jreichman and Dirtbag Bar Founder, Mark Gravel as they share tips about entrepreneurship, product development, and health. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #DirtBagBar #betterforyouchocolate #vegan #glutenfree #healthysnacks #CPG #smallbiz #health
Inspirational Quotes:
02:02 “It's always an interesting challenge to make something that doesn't include traditional ingredients and try to make it a little bit healthier.” —Mark Gravel
03:01 “I wouldn't recommend creating something without doing some research first.” —Mark Gravel
08:43 “It's a challenge, but it's a challenge that we're happy to face because we want to keep providing.” —Justine Reichman
12:52 “Vegan doesn't always mean better; it could still have a huge amount of sugar.” —Justine Reichman
18:11 “When you do a CPG brand, there's a lot of elements to pull together. Product development is almost just a small percentage of the overall scope of what it takes to just bring a packaged food project into the world.” —Mark Gravel
23:10 “Working in a stressful industry with a lot of uncertainty and financial pressure, it's already hard enough. But then when you mix the uncertainty of what your mood and emotions are going to be on a day-to-day basis, sometimes it just feels like you're walking up a really steep hill but pulling a giant heavy bag behind you.” —Mark Gravel
24:27 “Don't let these things stop you. Figure out how to work with them.” —Mark Gravel
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. And today with me is Mark who is the founder of Dirtbag.
Welcome, Mark.
Mark Gravel: Thanks, Justine.
Justine Reichman: So we had a little hiccup at the kickoff here, but we're back rolling and ready to go. So Mark, can you tell us for our listeners and our viewers, what is the Dirtbag Bar?
Mark Gravel: Yeah, absolutely. So Dirtbag Bar is a chewy chocolate date bar that I made. It's organic, vegan, and gluten free. It's made with whole food ingredients that don't contain any sugar, added sugars, powders, oil, syrups, anything like that. It's just super clean, super simple. And I started making it for myself. I used to run a food stand at an outdoor seasonal food market in New York called Smorgasburg. And so I was just kind of making the bar as a snack for myself and sharing it with my team and people that I was working with. So that's kind of how it came about initially.
Justine Reichman: You mentioned that it's gluten free, and it's vegan, and it's all these different things. Why was that important to you?
Mark Gravel: Just for the health benefits of that, I wanted it to be really nutrient dense, but also not super cortically dense either. So I wanted it to just be a little bit of a pick me up, just a little source of clean energy and fuel, but not like a meal replacement. I love vegan desserts in general. For me, some of the most interesting desserts I've had are vegan. I think it's always an interesting challenge to make something that doesn't include traditional ingredients and try to make it a little bit healthier. Someone who really loves chocolate, chocolate snack bars, it just felt really hard to find something that tasted good and had a good texture. And that didn't contain added sugar. That was really the big one for me, it was just refined sugars.
“It's always an interesting challenge to make something that doesn't include traditional ingredients and try to make it a little bit healthier.” —Mark Gravel
Justine Reichman: I appreciate your initiative to make a good for you bar. On a personal level, I try not to eat sugar. I don't like the way it makes me feel. I don't eat gluten because I'm intolerant, all these different things. And while I eat butter, I don't eat eggs because I'm intolerant. So I go vegan because it takes out the eggs and so many baked goods, or bars, or whatever. But I'm curious, did you do that on a personal level just to be healthy to fill a void in the marketplace?
Mark Gravel: I wasn't really trying to fill a void in the marketplace. I wouldn't recommend creating something without doing some research first. I started making this for myself. I liked it. Other people liked it. And then COVID happened. I was like, okay, I'll just try to turn this into its own project because my other business was like temporarily shut down because the markets weren't in operation. I was kind of making it just out of a personal preference and desire to try a package food project because I've always been in restaurants and catering, and doing that kind of stuff for most of my life. So yeah, maybe the market might want this. Maybe not. I don't know, we'll see. I'm just gonna make it, put it out there and see what happens. Just in general, I did notice an overall trend of better for you treats, especially chocolate candies. Now you see all these companies making products that have oat milk instead of regular dairy, zero sugar and stuff like that. So I think overall, Dirtbag Bar was kind of fitting into that space that was emerging around better for you chocolate treats and snacks like that. So yeah, I wasn't really super focused on market research and trying to fill, find a white space and fill that which you should definitely do by all. I just didn't do it at the time because I had already been making this bar. I just want to share this with people that I've already been making.
Justine Reichman: My next question is, because you made this bar, you like that, people like it, and you know you were building a CPG brand and company. Well, maybe not intentionally, intentionally initially. You've been a chef, you've cooked. But now, you have to create that and innovate to make that bar. But you've really changed from being in the kitchen all the time, unless you're still making the bars yourself to creating a brand and a product. What was that shift like for you?
Mark Gravel: At first, it was really fun. At first, it was fun. But now, it's not. It's still fun, there's just a lot of pressure. And it's incredibly capital intensive to keep a project like this going. Just imagine like, hey, let's drive cross country. That sounds like an awesome idea, but you only have enough money for gas. You better make sure that you have enough money to get or to fill your gas tank to get you all the way across the country, or at least be able to figure out how to find the money to keep going. That's kind of what it feels like. So you're starting out, you have this idea, I want it to look like this, and I want the brand to feel like that. It's really fun. All the creative stuff that's happening, which I thrive on, I love design, I love baking like art and collage, stuff like that. And so my brain just really gets excited when all that type of work is happening. It's not so good with the nitty gritty and the financials, and selling, and sales, marketing and stuff like that. It goes over my head a little bit. It's more of a learning curve for me. It's something that I'm trying to get better at.
Justine Reichman: So we're all good at certain things, and then there's other things that are just not our skill set. How did you approach that?
Mark Gravel: I tried to find people to work with, to kind of balance the things that I wasn't good at. I have been able to work with some really amazing people that have joined the project. I have a friend that helps me with sales right now, and he reps a few other really amazing organic socially conscious brands in the CPG space. And so he's had an incredible wealth of knowledge. I've really enjoyed working with him, and I hope to be able to start working with more people soon that have more experience in operations, or sales, or marketing and stuff like that as the project grows. But right now, I literally just yesterday placed the order for the third run of bars. Dirtbag Bars really at this critical moment of whether we will make it to January? Will we be able to keep going and find amazing people to work with, collaborate with as partners on the project? How many more stories can we bring in? a lot of uncertainty. But I'm kind of excited. It makes me feel so happy to be able to make it this far, and that I'm able to still share this bar with the world. And people, especially health food stores and those kinds of old school food, Co-op spots, they really take it and appreciate the ingredients and just the approach and the purpose of it. So it's like a roller coaster right now.
Justine Reichman: It's purpose driven, and it's passion driven, and you listen to your passion. So often, that's what ignites us as entrepreneurs, it's what gets us up in the morning, enabling us to keep going when we struggle. It's a challenge, but it's a challenge that we're happy to face because we want to keep providing that whether it's you, that you want everybody to keep having access to your bar, et cetera. So for me, having my business has been, it gets me up every day, I'm excited. And there's challenges and whether you're trying to get sponsors or this and that. But if I didn't have that, we couldn't have these podcasts. I feel like my calling, if you will, is to be able to break down this information to give it to people so that they can make more informed and better choices for themselves. And for you, it's because you made this amazing bar, and I want to talk to you because I also love the branding. I know you mentioned that's part of your skill sets, design and aesthetics. And with that, I'd love to know, how did you
“It's a challenge, but it's a challenge that we're happy to face because we want to keep providing.” —Justine Reichman
Mark Gravel: Absolutely. Growing up, I just always loved being outside and doing outdoor activities. I was always either climbing, or surfing, or doing something in the water, in the mountains, snowboarding. That kind of lifestyle of being a nomad living really simply minimally pursuing, doing things you love, pursuing your passion, it just seemed great set of values to communicate through a brand, especially creating a bar that was mentally, just be a source of clean energy for someone whether they were going hiking, or going to the climbing, gym, or going to do yoga, whatever they were doing. It just felt like it fit nicely at the intersection of really good quality food and spending time outside, and recreating, outdoor recreation and stuff like that.
Justine Reichman: So I want to go back a second. We're talking about healthy foods, we're talking about building something that connects you from the outdoors to this healthy bar. I'm not gonna say that burgers are not healthy, but it seems like there's sort of a big leap. How did it feel to take that leap to go from cooking burgers good for your brand?
Mark Gravel: Yeah. So that's a very interesting question because burgers are supreme. My burger stand was kind of an accident. Before that, I had always been working with beans and plant based foods. I wrote a cookbook about beans called Kill The Recipe, and I was always doing bean pop ups. And then I was working with a coffee company as their creative director and doing menu development, redesigning their packaging, setting up a cafe for them and all that. And so that project came to an end, and I was kind of like, oh, what should I do now? And I was like, oh, just do this Burger Pop up. And it was supposed to just be just a short term interim thing. It never was intended to grow to the point that it did. I'm very grateful that it did, because it's provided me with a lot of amazing experiences making burgers in Japan for two weeks, traveling to LA and Miami, and doing food and wine festivals, and just doing fun collaborations and pop ups with other chefs. But my cooking has never really been focused around me like it has with the burger stand. It was just a total fluke. I've given that if I was going to have a burger, I've always wanted to have, I love vegan desserts. So it's just always the balance for me regardless, a really good burger and a really good vegan dessert just sounded a great combination to me.
Justine Reichman: It sounds like you get to make your better for you choice for the day. You have the order, which might be more caloric or have more fat. But then you're creating this better for you vegan dessert which maybe has some better ingredients. And vegan doesn't always mean better, it could still have a huge amount of sugar. But depending on what it is, many times vegan desserts, we'll try to aim to incorporate dates instead of some other sweetener, or et cetera, or nuts instead of a cheese. And cheese is not necessarily bad. It just might be better for you, better for the planet, and your better decision to complement what you're eating.
Mark Gravel: Well, and that's the key. That's the key difference. I wanted to create something that was made with whole food ingredients that didn't have all those refined processed ingredients. Because you're absolutely right, there can be any sort of vegan food, vegetarian foods, they can contain a lot of processed ingredients. And so I wanted it because I was using whole food ingredients for this bar. And it was by default, it was vegan. No protein powders, egg powders, collagen, anything like that. All of those ingredients have their places and people are seeking that out. That's cool. But I just wanted to be really simple.
“Vegan doesn't always mean better; it could still have a huge amount of sugar.” —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: So since dirtbag is now getting into larger stores, our local organic store, which is one of my favorites, and you're in rainbow, and you're in Bahrain. I don't know what other stores around the country you're in, but that's a really good start here in the Bay Area. What's your goals for this year, in the next three years? How many stores are you hoping to get into? Are you hoping to add additional skews to Dirtbag?
Mark Gravel: I've been really lucky with the stores reaching out and bringing it in, (inaudible), Rainbow, tons of other amazing independent smaller shops, the Goods Mart.
Justine Reichman: You can't forget about them now.
Mark Gravel: No, yeah.
Justine Reichman: They were pretty good for you, better for your products.
Mark Gravel: Yeah, they're early supporters. I love them to death. They're great. And then there's some other Independence around like the Hudson area New York and stuff like that. Right now, the main focus is California and just because that's where I'm at. But the East Coast is probably going to happen soon. Focusing more on that, maybe next year. But yeah, my goal right now is just to get to 100 stores by the end of this year. We're about 75 right now, which is good considering that it's just me and one other part time person helping me.
Justine Reichman: It would be great to go back to school too.
Mark Gravel: I would love to go down the road. I just have so many ideas for new form factors and some other skews. But all of that is just kind of like waiting in the wings right now. Right now, the main focus is just the single skew, the one bar. I just want to get as far along as I can with that and then try to maybe get to the next step. Whether that's fundraising, and then getting to that point, then that's where it would make sense to start building out more of a team developing new flavors, skews and stuff like that. There would be nothing cooler in my mind than to do a fun sized version of Dirtbag Bar for a mom to throw in her kids lunchbox for school. Different ways to enjoy the bar. Just traditional form made me do some ice cream collaboration through something.
Justine Reichman: That would be fun. You got to check out Eclipse. They're vegan ice cream, and I think there's some others too, but that's the first one that came to mind.
Mark Gravel: I think it would make really good ice cream.
Justine Reichman: My question for you, your path wasn't straight which gives you access to a variety of experiences exactly as is mine. But as a result, what about your experience you think helped you with this?
Mark Gravel: I've done so much in the food space from interning at a Food and Wine Festival and doing some PR in that capacity, working with food quarterly. And so working in the magazine and publishing space a little bit, publishing a cookbook, designing restaurants, doing menu development, product development. There's just so many things that I've done that are focused around food. When you do a CPG brand, there's a lot of elements to pull together. And so I think having some experience, I think the wide range of experiences I've had, professionally, so far, it really helped Dirtbag Bar get to where it is today. There's a lot more than just product development, it almost just feels like a small percentage of the overall scope of what it takes to just bring a packaged, food project into the world. So yeah, I think everything is really informed just like what I do on a day to day basis, and how I can just pull from these different experiences and skills that I learned along the way to kind of round out what I'm able to do. I think that's why I'm able to get to where I'm at so far with just myself and then some really talented strategic partners. It's just helped from those relationships. I think those working relationships are a little bit smoother to just knowing a little bit about what the other person's doing and stuff like that.
Justine Reichman: That totally makes sense to me. I know that all the varied experiences that I have have helped me get to where I am. While it may not be directly related in the sense that I'm not in the exact same industry, I am purposeful in different places. So what was one of your greatest challenges coming into the CPG space having worked in food, but not being a first time entrepreneur? And in terms of a CPG brand, obviously, you are an entrepreneur doing all those other things, but starting a brand and a business with a product is different. So what do you think was the biggest challenge coming from that area?
Mark Gravel: This might not be exactly related to the question. But personally, my biggest challenge, the reason Dirtbag Bar is such a purpose driven project as far as the givebacks for mental health, giving 1% for the planet and stuff like that. The mental health component was the most important part of this project for me, because that's my biggest challenge. I've struggled with depression, and my mental health is pretty much my entire life. And so being an entrepreneur and having the stress of a business to run, but then also not knowing how you're going to feel when you wake up in the morning, whether you might just totally be stuck in your own head, or in this depressed mood where it feels impossible to do stuff a long time, it would feel really hard to even just get out of bed and take a shower. And so having days like that, I haven't had days like that in a long time, which have been good. But for me personally, the biggest challenge is being able to keep things moving forward, knowing that I might not be able to function mentally one day, and how to manage all of that. My biggest challenge is just to be able to keep myself in a healthy space, recognise when I'm overextending myself or trying to do too much. And then dialling it back or just adjusting based on what I'm dealing with, personally. And also just being able to push through it sometimes, then just to be able to get a few things done that might be really critical in terms of a timeline.
Justine Reichman: What do you do to help you in those moments?
Mark Gravel: In the past two years, I have developed a little toolkit of practices that I can rely on. I'm able to do therapy on a weekly basis, which is really good. I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. But some of the practices that I rely on when I get stuck in those kinds of depressive moods, breath, work, meditation, sound baths are really helpful. I find sound and vibration to be really soothing and help me move some of those motions through just going on walks, long walks. Like the other day when I was out, I was out at the beach near you. I just felt like the drive out there, it was just having a really stressful day that's why I just went to the beach. And I literally just walked down the beach and back for almost two hours just to clear some of that energy out because my nervous system just felt super overloaded. Because working in a stressful industry with a lot of uncertainty and financial pressure, it's already hard enough. But then when you mix the uncertainty of what your mood and emotions are going to be on a day to day basis, sometimes it just feels like you're walking up a really steep hill but pulling a giant heavy bag behind you.
Justine Reichman: I really appreciate you sharing that all with me because I know that many entrepreneurs, or lots of people in the world struggle with that. And it's not uncommon. And to be able to hear that could be really helpful for so many people to know that they're not alone. What works for you, so that maybe they can try some of those tools in your toolkit. So I'm really grateful that you shared that because I know it's personal. And I know it can be really difficult. So I think that for our viewers and our listeners, I'm really grateful that you have the opportunity to hear from somebody that has done all these different things and is now running a CPG company and was open about your challenges. You address them, so I just wanted to say thank you.
Mark Gravel: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that for anyone else that might be feeling in a similar way, don't let these things stop you. Figure out how to work with them. But yeah, just go for it. If you have something you want to do, just figure it out. And I always didn't manage it in the healthiest ways. But over the past few years, we're learning about and doing these things. As far as what I was saying with breath work, meditation, yoga and just stuff like that has been incredibly helpful.
Justine Reichman: I really appreciate you sharing that and your story. Listeners and viewers that are tuned in, I know we mentioned some of the products, some of the places where they could get your product. If they wanted to learn more about Dirtbag, where can they go to find that out?
Mark Gravel: Oh, yeah, totally. So the website is dirtbagbar.com. It's a very minimal, pretty minimal, no frills website. Just have some basic information, store locator. So you can just click on that and find what stores we're at. And then a little bit of background just on my life and my professional experiences, just kind of gives you a brief overview of everything. And then you can also buy the bars online too.
Justine Reichman: Okay, that's in Northern California or Southern California. And since you haven't yet expanded being new in other parts of the country, to get there, all you have to do is go to the dirtbagbar.com website.
Mark Gravel: Yeah. I just officially launched this past May, so it hasn't really been too long.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Mark, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story with me. I hope to follow along and continue to see your progress and find you in my local store here soon. Given I am a New Yorker, I'm hoping to hear it's in more New York stores so I can send and let my friends know too. So thanks again for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I look forward to chatting again soon.
Mark Gravel: Awesome. Thank you, Justine.
