S7 Ep2: Revolutionary Bioengineering Breakthrough— A Solution to the Decontamination Dilema with Steve McDaniel
“Be sure that you instill in your children and your children’s children the fact that farming is not the problem, it is the answer.” — Steve McDaniel
Biological threats due to the worsening effects of climate change pose significant risks to both the environment and human health. Decontaminating these threats proficiently can be challenging due to their varied nature, persistence, and potential for dispersal. Fortunately, key developments in the field of bioengineering have led to the development of innovative solutions focused on solving this particular problem.
In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks in 2001, Reactive Surfaces Founder, Steve McDaniel pondered the possibility of an enzyme that could neutralize organophosphorus pesticides and detoxify organophosphorus nerve weapons. His research found that when this enzyme was captured and stabilized in a coating system, it effectively countered nerve weapons and maintained its functionality for extended periods. This led to the creation of a bioengineered additive that continually and consistently decontaminates chemical and biological threat agents. Today, Reactive Surfaces is recognized globally as a pioneer in leveraging advanced bio-engineering to enhance the functionality of paints and coatings.
Join in as Justine and Steve propose a more efficient, nature-based solution to decontamination. They also discuss the vital part played by farmers in addressing global challenges, nature's power in combating environmental issues, agriculture's role as a solution rather than a contributor to climate change, and how Steve plans to scale and boost the impact of bioengineering solutions.
Connect with Steve:
Steve McDaniel, Ph.D., is the founder and Chief Innovation Officer of the award-winning paint and coatings company, Reactive Surfaces, an innovation company operating in the paint, coatings, and specialty chemicals industries for the past 20 years. His technical expertise includes organic chemistry, polymer chemistry, biochemistry, and molecular biology.
Dr. McDaniel has a Bachelor of Science in Biology from the University of Texas, a master's in science in Genetics from Texas A&M University, a Ph.D. in Biochemistry from Texas A&M University, a Post-Doctoral fellow in chemistry at Baylor College of Medicine, and received a Juris Doctor specializing in Intellectual Property Law from the University of Houston. He regularly speaks and presents on topics related to polymer chemistry, bio-functional coatings, and space exploration.
Episode Highlights:
01:45 Give It To The Farmers
05:46 Engineering Against Contaminants
09:06 Farming the Atmosphere
13:39 Bioengineering Paint
16:03 Farming is the Solution
18:24 How to Scale Up
Tweets:
Can common building materials have incredible decontaminating properties? This week, @jreichman and @ReactiveSurface Founder, Steve McDaniel share a cutting-edge technology that marks a turning point in our fight against contamination. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #ReactiveSurface #bioengineeringsolutions #coatsandpaints #biotech #enzymes #decontamination
Inspirational Quotes:
03:14 “If you want something done, don't just talk about it. Give it to a farmer, get out of their way, and they'll do it.” —Steve McDaniel
15:22 “It won't happen in my lifetime. But maybe, it'll happen in your lifetime. And maybe, it'll happen in our children's lifetime. But we have to give them the tools.” —Steve McDaniel
15:41 “Don't wait around for the government to do it. Don't wait around for some billionaire to figure it out. Do it.” —Steve McDaniel
16:03 “Be sure that you instill in your children and your children's children the fact that farming is not the problem, it is the answer.” —Steve McDaniel
16:52 “I believe in climate change. So finding these answers and innovating with that in mind is going to be integral to the future.” —Justine Reichman
20:03 “You got to be the person who will do every job that nobody else wants to do, and you got to be perfectly satisfied with not getting paid for it. And it helps if you have a good attitude and a smile on your face.” —Steve McDaniel
20:31 “Be ready to do it, but be ready to do it smart.” —Steve McDaniel
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. With me today is Steve McDaniel, who is the Founder and Chief Innovation Officer of Reactive Surfaces.
Welcome, Steve.
Steve McDaniel: Thanks, Justine. I'm really looking forward to this.
Justine Reichman: Me too. It's exciting to be able to chat with somebody that's come up with such a cool innovation and can inspire so many others. For those not familiar with Reactive Surfaces, is it possible if you would just tell us a little bit about what that is?
Steve McDaniel: Absolutely. I'd be very glad to. And your listeners should know, of course, that I'm a farm boy. I grew up in deep West Texas. My maternal grandparents were indigenous people who had a subsistence farm. They basically grew everything they had. By the way, I gotta say, it's pretty yummy. Second, people say they understand what peas taste like. I'm like, not really. And then my paternal grandparents were ranchers. In fact, my uncle was sheriff in Brewster County for about 25 years. So I come from the land. I went on to get a genetics degree at Texas A&M University, the big land grant off of Agricultural University of Texas, and a PhD from there. And my focus is we're in the agricultural area. One of my first papers, by the way, was a genetics paper on corn. That's one thing I'm proud of because it was my very first one when I was getting my master's degree. You asked a great question, what are Reactive Surfaces? And what am I doing in that business? Okay. I wondered at one point in my career, after I became a lawyer, whether I could take agriculturally important natural activities. We call them functionalities. Take them out of nature, and train them in a paint, put that paint on a surface and ask them to do the very same thing they're doing in nature on a surface.
“If you want something done, don't just talk about it. Give it to a farmer, get out of their way, and they'll do it.” —Steve McDaniel
Let me give you an exact example. Just saying that we're both staring at each other through a screen. If there were a coating that was clear and we could still see each other, but that coating contained in it an enzyme that broke down fast, greases and oils. And all of a sudden, you don't have to clean those greasy fingerprints off your screen, they go away. And that's what we do. We've been adding Fraps, it's 2002, very successful at it. But then rolls around 2018, and we all kind of get some bad news. That bad news is we've got an existential problem. We've got global warming going on. There's a lot of people that would tell you that because of CO2 in the air, and that is absolutely, guys don't deny the science show. And how are we going to get that CO2 out of the air while there are a zillion ways that people are thinking about it? And God bless, I hope they make it out. But here's the thing for sure. There's less CO2 to go around. So let's start doing it as fast as possible. Who can do that kind of thing? Yeah, they get blamed on a lot of things. But if you want something done, if you really wanted to, you don't wanna just talk about it, and you want to give it to a farmer. Just give it to a farmer, get out of their way, and they'll do it. So one of the reasons I want to talk to your people, especially the young people who are considering agriculture as a career and who are considering the fact that climate change is having an adverse impact on their crops and they want to do something to just pay attention, because you can do it. And also, don't think about, I want to survive. No, no, no. Think about thriving, because that's what you're gonna do.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. I appreciate you sharing your background, and a little bit about how the background inspired what you did. And I'd like to just break it down a little bit for people to have a conversation, just in a very easy way that would allow people to find this more tangible. Because I know you had some videos that you wanted to share, some links that you wanted to share. Well, we'll make sure to include those. So for those founders that are listening, as someone who's an innovator, and someone that's a founder, let's go back to when you started this, what inspired you? I know your background was in agriculture, but specifically to start this company.
Steve McDaniel: Yeah, there are two phases. The first is when we just started the company. And that is asking the question whether we could train in a coating and then place that coating on the surface, something that would do something actively for you and the environment in which you are. That company was started almost entirely just named as a response to 9 11.
Justine Reichman: Okay. 9 11 was that moment when you came up with this idea?
Steve McDaniel: Yeah. For my PhD, I happened to work on enzymes that degraded organophosphorus pesticides in the agricultural area, but it turns out that they also broke down chemical weapons.
Justine Reichman: Wow. So 9 11 was part of the inspiration, if you will, that the time and what was going on there for you to be able to come up with this specific concept.
Steve McDaniel: That's right. That's when we started putting natural enzymes and molecules in coatings and making them work.
Justine Reichman: Okay. One, that's so interesting. Founders come up with these ideas from life experience,from passion. I'm always interested to hear what inspired somebody to innovate,and what that moment was like for them. So when you were doing this, because this was part of your thesis, you were saying?
Steve McDaniel: The enzyme. I'm a genetic engineer, and I cloned an enzyme from soil bacteria that could break down chemical pesticides in particular organophosphorus, malathion, parathion, all those kinds of things that we routinely use on farms. And so I wanted to know what was breaking these things down in the soil. I located the bacterium, then I pulled the gene out of it and stuck that gene in,and now I can make the enzyme with organophosphorus hydrolyzed.
Justine Reichman: Wow. Science was not my--
Steve McDaniel: Yeah. If you've ever sprayed a wasp with malathion, it's nasty and you don't want it around. So how do we get rid of that? How do we get rid of that?
Justine Reichman: So when you innovated and you came up with this idea, what was your big idea? What was your big goal?
Steve McDaniel: Well, at first, around 911, people were very concerned about terrorism. They were very concerned about people using against populations and their weapons. So people were doing investigative reports all over the place. Someone found out about me and interviewed me for a TV show, a couple of TV shows. And they asked me the question, can you take that enzyme that you found, and can you use it to protect us against chemical weapons? And I said, honestly, no, I can't. Here's the thing, chemical weapons, they call them gasses. They're not gasses. They're aerosolized droplets that fall on surfaces. And if you touch that surface, then you're going to be picking up that problem. So I said, the only way it's going to work is if we can put on a surface something that just sits there and waits for it to be contaminated, and then does something to it. They asked me about that. And about two months later, I get a call from a friend of mine. He said, McDaniel, I just saw you on TV. He said, you said that you could put an enzyme in it. He used the word BS. Or that was BS or not. And I said, Charlie, that was pretty much BS. And he said, well, if I could get some money together, would you give it a try? And just saying to the life to this day, and for the life of me, I cannot tell you why. I'm an attorney, a successful attorney. I said, yes, I would. And I did.
Justine Reichman: Wow, that's pretty cool. So once you did this, you got the money, or he got the money, and then you did this. What happened next?
Steve McDaniel: Well, it turns out that there are a lot of enzymes that you can place the coatings on as we started looking more broadly, rather than just chemical weapon breakdown. But there are other things like I told you a while ago, greases, fats, and oils on surfaces. Certainly, we're all concerned, if you can remember just recently with the pandemic, and surfaces, wanting to be sure everything was clean, and those kinds of things. So we started looking at all sorts of different enzymes, cellular parts, bacteria, in particular, other things that we can stick in a coating and have them do something functional and good for you in that coating. So we expanded quite a lot.
“Be ready to do it, but be ready to do it smart.” —Steve McDaniel
Justine Reichman: Wow. So now, if we wanted to bring this to the impact of food and your goal for the future of food, can you connect the dots for me?
Steve McDaniel: Sure, I can. I'm really going to ask you a favor. Make sure, please, that young people hear what we're talking about. Because the future is quite bright, especially if you are interested in farming and agriculture. It is very bright. And I'll connect the dots for you because everybody knows that the Earth's nature has been pretty successful in developing something called the carbon cycle. And all in the world that means there's lots of co2 in the air. Organisms down here use it. They produce oxygen, plants going round and round, corn plants, apple trees and everything else. That's the carbon cycle, and it works really well. The problem is that we have started dumping something about 40 gigatons, that's billions of tons of co2 into the air every year. And nature can't keep up so we got to help it. And how do we help? Well, if we can build a coating that itself pulls down co2 and captures it and keeps it, then we have a chance to catch up with the amount of co2 that's being emitted. We should all be doing things to try to eliminate that. We also have to pull what's there out, then that would be a cool thing to do. And what about food production? Well, here's the deal. The things that are doing what we just talked about,pulling co2 out,for the most part, it's not trees, and it's not grass. For the most part, it's a little tiny micro algae cyanobacterium. You'll hear it called blue green algae and everything, and they are everywhere. Every surface on this planet is just shocked full of those things. And they are an amazing engine.
As I said, they're pulling down over 100 Giga tons of co2 per year out of the atmosphere mainly. In fact, here's an interesting thing. Oxygen, you and I are breathing right now, most of that oxygen was produced by microalgae in the ocean just a few weeks ago, so we want them to keep doing what they're doing. We can't paint farmland, we can't paint trees, we can't paint the ocean. What can we paint? Well, one thing we can paint is just like we always paint like those walls in your room right there. We can go vertical. Can we reach into the atmosphere vertically, rather than horizontally like we normally farm? Can we farm that atmosphere? And the answer is if we can stick surfaces, like I'm talking about, up in the atmosphere, you can pull down great gobs of co2, and you don't have to take up precious farmland to do it. And in fact, I would suggest to you that people, the farmers, I'm okay, the farmers I grew up with, you've got some hunk of ground on your farm, this is just worthless. I mean, it's got rocks in it, it has poor soil, it's been depleted because you grow cotton there for 25 years or whatever. You just can't use it. But if you could build something going up vertically, then you can use it.
Justine Reichman: Can you share with me? What would this look like if you're building it? That would be great.
Steve McDaniel: As a matter of fact, it can't be battleship galactica. It's got to be something that people can build and who they're familiar with. Well, practically, everybody in the farming community is familiar with containers called intermediate bulk cargo. They get their fertilizer that way, they get water that way. They're these plastic boxes, they're about 250 gals, they have a metal frame around them and the plastic box. You can stack them as high as you want to. And that's the infrastructure. Now, what we put inside those things are surfaces that have these paints on them and they just start pulling down to co2 into these boxes. We collect those over time, harvest them, dry them down, and we store it. And all of a sudden, all that co2 that you took out on your farm is in a box. It's not up in the atmosphere anymore, it's in your box. And guess what? People are going to pay you for that box. Hopefully, a lot. They're gonna pay you for that box. All you had to do was put it on the (inaudible) that is full of rocks anyway. The other cool thing about this, the other thing these things pull out the air is water. You don't have to water it, it pulls water out of the air itself. You can do these kinds of things in the desert. Believe it or not, desert water, desert air is actually pretty human. You know that, because when you walk out in the morning, you look down on the ground there, every leaf has got to drop off.
Justine Reichman: So my question to you is, once you've collected this and you have it in the box, what's next?
Steve McDaniel: Well, unlike other solutions, and in particular, something that farmers appreciate, if you take that carbon and you burn it without oxygen, you make something called biochar. And biochar is one of the best soil amendments we know. It causes the soil to absorb water and keep it in the air as the soil makes it less compact, etcetera. And you can build your own soil amendment right there on your farm if you want to. Better yet sell to somebody, let them do it and make money. The other thing you could do is, it turns out Justine that there are all sorts of cyanobacteria, some of them are called nitrogen fixing bacteria. And they are the kinds of bacteria that's on your soybeans and some of your other legumes that you grow, and they return nitrogen to the soil. Now, if you take those algae and you put them in the same paints, they will pull down nitrogen into that coating. When you draw that down and grind it up, you have your own fertilizer. You can make your own fertilizer.
Justine Reichman: This is super interesting. I see all the different possibilities with it. What is your hope for the agricultural industry and farmers with regards to this? What is your hope for impact?
“It won't happen in my lifetime. But maybe, it'll happen in your lifetime. And maybe, it'll happen in our children's lifetime. But we have to give them the tools.” —Steve McDaniel
Steve McDaniel: Yeah. Well, I don't know if you're a parent, but I'm a parent. I'm a grandparent, and I want my kids, your kids, your grandkids, etcetera, to be able to look forward to the earth's nature, like I grew up in that's not burning up. That's not causing people to have to emigrate or migrate massive amounts because they don't have water, it's hotter or whatever. It won't happen in my lifetime. I'm a pretty old guy. But maybe, it'll happen in your lifetime. And maybe, it'll happen in our children's lifetime. But we have to give them the tools. You ask me a very specific question, I'll give you a very specific answer. I meant it when I said, if you want something done, give it to (inaudible). Don't wait around for the government to do it. Don't wait around for some billionaire to figure it out. Do it.
Justine Reichman: As the Innovation Officer and as a Founder of this company, your belief in the farmers for helping to change the future of this industry, what is one or two things that you might say to them to inspire them to be able to integrate this?
“Don't wait around for the government to do it. Don't wait around for some billionaire to figure it out. Do it.” —Steve McDaniel
Steve McDaniel: First of all, be sure that you instill in your children and your children's children the fact that farming is the answer. That's where we're gonna get the answer to this. It's not the problem, it is the answer. Here's the deal. You don't have to believe in climate change, but you can't believe that people will pay you for pulling down co2 out of the air. So get in business. Get in business, it's a cash crop, you do it on the side of the lousy lands you got on your farm, unfortunately, and you go ahead and do everything else you're doing anyway. These things pretty much take care of themselves.
Justine Reichman: Well, it's a really innovative concept. I'm excited for you to be able to share that with our listeners, because I think that we all hope to have the world around us. I believe in climate change. And I think we're seeing it right now with the heat, and the lack of rain, et cetera, all these things are playing into it. So I think finding these answers and innovating with that in mind is going to be integral to the future. So with that being said, you as the Innovation Officer and innovating in so many different ways, do you have anything else new on the horizon that you're working on?
“Be sure that you instill in your children and your children's children the fact that farming is not the problem, it is the answer.” —Steve McDaniel
Steve McDaniel: Well, we have to make the spread. If it's going to work, it has to be something that we can easily distribute to farmers and easily get to not just in the United States, but elsewhere. Or in Africa, places where there are small farmers who can use this kind of thing. They don't have a lot of water, they don't have a lot of resources, but they can stack boxes on their land. So we've got to get that out to them. And right now, my team is building a pilot facility and a huge agricultural area called San Joaquin Valley in California. We are trying to build it in such a way that we can literally just ship the equipment out. We can always give you the paint, we can always give you the algae, we can always do that. But you have to have the box, you have to have the place you're gonna grow it. That's what we're trying to do right now. Let's figure out how to get it out. We are a competitor on the XPRIZE, carbon removal prize, a $100 million prize. We intend to win it. But one of the parts of that is, how are you going to scale up? How are you going to get this in people's hands? That's what we're trying to do right now.
Justine Reichman: And so with that said, how do you scale this up?
Steve McDaniel: It's hard to imagine what a billion is. One with three zeros is 1000. A 1000 days ago, you were almost three years younger. One was six zeros and a million. A million years ago, Jesus Christ had (inaudible). A billion years ago, there were no humans on this planet. It's a huge difference. We have to get to the level of being able to pull out billions of tons of co2. So your question, how do you scale it up? It's pretty simple. Photosynthesis has a specific speed limit. I don't want to complicate things. But basically it's 18 millimoles per hour, per meter squared, or about 44 milligrams of co2 per hour, per meter squared. That's it. It has a speed limit, natural speed limit. You ain't gonna get any faster. You multiply that photosynthetic rate times the amount of surface area, surface area is the key. So where do we have lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of surface area on this planet? Well, 70% is covered by ocean water. So one of the ways we're going to do this and where my teams aren't working on it right now, we're gonna be working in conjunction with San Francisco State University on San Francisco Bay to get vertical sheets working in this very same way that we can literally float on the ocean.
“I believe in climate change. So finding these answers and innovating with that in mind is going to be integral to the future.” —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: Wow. It's amazing what you're creating and building. I think, as you said, the message does need to get out there so more people can learn about this. In building this company, can I just ask, what was your greatest challenge?
Steve McDaniel: Someone asked me one time, what's an entrepreneur? What is that? I said, well, here's how I define it. You have to be the person who will do every job that nobody else wants to do, and you got to be perfectly satisfied with not getting paid for it. And it helps if you have a good attitude and a smile on your face. So that's basically what you got to do. You have to figure out in your gut if you're going to do something. Get ready, it is not going to be an easy thing. It's good if you got a side gig. Okay, so money. You're not spending your mother's grocery money on this. Be ready to do it, but be ready to do it smart. But you have to have the fire in the belly. You got it.
Justine Reichman: Thank you, Steve, so much for joining us. And before we let everyone go, if they're looking to learn more about your organization, and whether as a farmer or just as a consumer, where might they be able to get this information?
“You got to be the person who will do every job that nobody else wants to do, and you got to be perfectly satisfied with not getting paid for it. And it helps if you have a good attitude and a smile on your face.” —Steve McDaniel
Steve McDaniel: If you go to reactivesurfaces.com, that's reactive word, and surfaces like surfaces.com, you can read all about it right there.
Justine Reichman: And if you're a farmer and you want to try to integrate this into your farm, what could they do? What are their next steps?
Steve McDaniel: We are building the farming units now. The thing that would help me most of all is to talk about people like Future Farmers of America, the grain societies and those kinds of places people tell them or ask them the question, how do you want it to be delivered to you? You wanted to be a tractor store? You want to be down to the big box store where you get your grain? What do you want? Where do you want it? Tell me, teach me.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Well, we will make sure to share this episode with everyone. We appreciate the opportunity for you to share your story here on our platform. Thank you for everything you're doing, and I look forward to continuing to follow your journey and see how things evolve. Thank you very much for joining us.
