S6 Ep22: Unlocking The Secret to the Best Tasting Dishes with Max La Manna
“Simple dish with simple ingredients is always going to be the best.” — Max La Manna
Every year, tons of food are wasted, leading to environmental pollution and economic losses. By adopting low waste cooking methods, we can save food, money and natural resources.
Low waste cooking is a way of life that reflects our values and priorities. It shows that we care about the planet, the people, and the future. By reducing food waste, we also reduce greenhouse gas emissions, conserve water, and protect biodiversity. We also support local farmers and communities, reduce food insecurity, and promote food justice.
Chef Max La Manna is a superstar in the world of low waste cooking! With a laid-back approach to creating delicious meals, he’s captured the hearts of over 1.2 million fans on social media. Max’s passion for reducing waste and using every bit of an ingredient has inspired his menus, and people can't get enough of his viral recipe videos. It's no surprise that he's been featured by top publications and even given his own TV series. Today, Max has become a household name for his food waste reduction efforts.
Hear what he'll cook up next in this week's episode as Justine and Max dive in an in-depth conversation about zero food waste and the secret to the best dishes. They also discuss how to build a community, create an impact through a movement, the connection between culture and the future of food, the importance of accessibility, and how to make a success in the food industry.
Connect with Max:
Max La Manna is an award-winning author, low-waste chef and digital creator whose casual approach to cooking has captivated an audience of over 1.2 million followers across his social media accounts.
Inspired by his own life experience, Max creates simple, affordable dishes that use as much of each ingredient as possible. His viral, easy-to-follow recipe videos have racked up over 1 billion views across socials.
His debut cookbook More Plants Less Waste was named Most Sustainable Cookbook at the 2020 Gourmand World Cookbook Awards. He has also been featured in publications including Vogue, Vice and The Guardian, hosted the BBC Earth series Regeneration Food, cooked live on BBC Saturday Kitchen, featured as a guest on BBC Breakfast talking about reducing food waste in the home, and won Digital Creator of the Year at the Fortnum & Mason Food and Drink Awards in May 2022.
Episode Highlights:
01:32 A Staggering Amount of Food Waste
06:11 Low Waste Cooking
09:30 Building a Community Through Social Media
13:40 Starting a Movement
20:40 Culture and the Future of Food
26:17 Food Does Not Lie
Resources
Grab a Copy of Max's Book
Tweets:
Low waste cooking is not just about the food we put on our plate, but also about being conscious about the impact we have on the world around us. Join @jreichman and Chef Max La Manna as they share how to meal prep like a pro with less waste and more appetizing taste. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #MaxLaManna #YouCanCookThis #ZeroWaste #NoWasteCooking #foodwaste #plantbasedrecipe #fooddoesnotlie
Inspirational Quotes:
01:23 "The amounts that you buy in the store are far more than you ever need." —Justine Reichman
02:44 "We eat with our eyes first, then the scent, and then we taste. So taste is almost the last thing that we get to experience. So having something visual, and having something that's delicious and appealing is going to drive people to cook the food they already have." —Max La Manna
03:36 "Home cooked are the best meals." —Max La Manna
05:13 "Simple dish with simple ingredients is always going to be the best." —Max La Manna
11:14 "I need to connect with my community and share my joy and passion with those who are supporting me through social media." —Max La Manna
12:40 "It feels a bit difficult to understand the impact until I meet people, until I go somewhere." —Max La Manna
27:29 "You can't lie about food. You can tell if it doesn't look good, it's gonna be all over your face. Food doesn't lie." —Max La Manna
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: That evening, good morning, good afternoon. My name is Justine Reichman, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. Today with me is Max La Manna. He is a low waste chef, a cook, a content creator, and an author.
Welcome, Max.
Max La Manna: Justine, thank you so much for having me.
Justine Reichman: I'm so glad to have you here. And to talk about your book that I'm very excited to dig into my fridge and see what I can make that might not be thought of.
Max La Manna: I hope you do because this book is all about using up the ingredients you already have in your fridge, in your cupboard, saving you time, money and food waste. So like the cover and like the title of the book, You Can Cook This. You can. I know you Justine, you can do this.
Justine Reichman: Well, I love to cook too. And my partner, he's the one that cooks everything in the fridge. I'm the one that likes, what do I feel like eating. I want to move towards this. Because you buy things and then when you're portioning them, you actually buy more than you need it. So then you have all these leftover ingredients, because I insisted on making some other recipes that I didn't have the ingredients for. And then the amounts that you buy in the store are far more than you ever need. This sounds great, because then you get all that waste. And you're like, okay, well now I can make 12 other recipes.
Max La Manna: That's exactly how the book was designed. In the US, the average household throws away roughly $1,500 of untouched food every single year. $1,500 is a lot of money. No matter who you ask. No one wants to throw out money. And I always say you earn the money, and then you spend that money on food that ends up going to waste. So this book is designed to inspire, transform, and give a bit of inspiration to your everyday meals.
Justine Reichman: I'm excited. And by the way, the pictures are beautiful, which makes you want to make the food.
Max La Manna: Yeah, that's the one comment that people always say to me. The pictures look great. I'm like, yeah, yeah, they do. I'm really proud of that. And that was a conscious decision with my team when we were photographing the recipes, making sure that the pictures of the food just jumps off the page.
Justine Reichman: And it does. And it sparks sort of like, okay, looking at the picture, say, well, what is that? Because the picture looks so amazing. You might never have thought to put together roasted squash, eggplant with tahini, or yogurt. That sounds really good, by the way.
Max La Manna: And we eat with our eyes first, then the scent, and then we have the taste. So taste is almost the last thing that we get to experience. So having something visual, and having something that's delicious and appealing is going to drive people to cook the food they already have and to make delicious, simple meals.
Justine Reichman: I couldn't agree more. For me, I love to make things colorful. If I'm making a salad, I want the color in there. Then of course, you're thinking about what's local and what's growing now. But I like to make it beautiful. And when it's beautiful and I'm looking at it, it's more enticing to eat. And it gives me joy to make it beautiful.
Max La Manna: I feel like we can talk about food forever. This is you speaking is like my love language. This is always on my mind, how can I make a dish look beautiful? Even if it's just home cooked meals, I think they are the best, or the best meals. I like going out to restaurants sometimes and you get this beautiful presented dish, and then the waiter comes by and they pour some really warm, creamy fragrant sauce over the vegetables that you have on your plate and you go wow. But you know what? That's not a home cooked meal. You want something that's going to be beautiful, that's going to be simple. It's going to be easy and delicious. And that's going to be a time saving thing. We all have busy schedules and to-do lists so you want something that's gonna be quick and on the table, and enjoyable.
And yeah, I'm always constantly thinking about, how can I elevate this dish by adding simple kind of toppings to a dish, whether it's a fresh herb, or lemon zest, or a squeeze of citrus juice, or a nice drizzle of extra virgin olive oil on top some of these little components. You mentioned seasonal ingredients, organic ingredients. And I think if you have the means to do so, or you have the space, and the time, and the accessibility of having organic ingredients, that's great. Somerimes, more than not, they are always going to taste better because it's fresh and it's seasonal. It just came from the farm, just down the road. And so those ingredients will have incredible taste and you don't need 20 different spices or ingredients to kind of mask or develop a flavor that's going to just be overpowering. Sometimes, just a simple dish with simple ingredients is always going to be the best. In the Mediterranean sea, in Italy, or in the south of France, these dishes, the Mediterranean diets, just simple dishes, simple ingredients.
Justine Reichman: Yeah, it's like having an amazing tomato and just putting a little olive oil, a little sea salt or whatever you want on it. And it's amazing. Don't laugh, but when I have a steak, if you want to change it off a little, for me, an easy way without making sauces, and chimichurri, or whatever, you can add a little olive oil, a little salt like they do in Brazil. And it gives it another flavor. It elevates a little. For the most part, we have olive oil in the house. So that's a pretty easy way to elevate something. How did you get started in low waste cooking?
Max La Manna: I can speak to you all day, so I'll try to keep this short. I love food. I love cooking. I love being around food. And I certainly love eating it. I've always worked in restaurants. I've worked in restaurants for nearly two decades, and I didn't know I wanted to be a chef. I didn't know I wanted to pursue this career of food, cooking and cheffing. One day I'm in the kitchen and I'm cooking for a Michelin Star Chef in New York City, and I remember they were telling me how to make batons out of carrots. So I'm making these baton sticks, chopping it and you have to peel the carrot. Now we have to cut the boldest part, the round ends of the carrot, and we're only using the center. At that point, I'm cutting this carrot, throwing it away, I'm wasting roughly 75% of this carrot. Basically, I'm down to nothing. And I'm just thinking, where's all this going? This is ludicrous. This is insane. And I remember looking at the rubbish bin we had downstairs in the restaurant, and it's just filled with food. I just felt the sickness in my stomach thinking, where's this food gonna end up going? I didn't ask any questions. I went home and I noticed food in my own bin, and I was throwing away food. And so before I can start pointing any fingers, Justine, I had to point that finger back at myself and look and see, how did I get here? And how can I start making a change in my own life? Because I grew up having first generation parents who were told by their parents to never waste food. They were grown up with having parents that would never waste food, and my parents told me to not waste food. And so that memory of having my parents in my head, don't waste food, don't waste food. So it's been part of my cooking ever since.
Justine Reichman: Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. I can visualize it. As you're talking about cutting this carrot, I'm like, what's happening to the rest of it? And that happens so often, like even the greens at the end of the carrot or at the end of the celery. Some of it, I use for soup, salad dressings, or juices. But I'm excited to dig into your book and see how else we can use things and be creative. And just to go back to, what you're talking about and how you're working. It sort of resonated with you and you decided to become a low waste chef from there. Is that where you went next after you realize there was all this waste.
Max La Manna: Yeah. I started hosting. I knew I wanted to be in the food industry. There was a lightbulb moment. I think we talked right before we jumped on the podcast. For me, I was lost. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I had to sit down, I had this long look in the mirror and I said, Max, you need time to get serious. And I wrote a list, I ended up writing a list of 10 things I can see myself doing every single day. And one of those things was cooking. I said to myself that if I can do one of these 10 things every single day, I can say I'm happy because it's going to bring me joy for the 30 minutes. So I'm going to be in the kitchen in 20 minutes, whatever it's going to, it's going to bring me some happiness and some joy. So I started doing that every single day, and then I wanted to share my happiness and joy with other people. And so I started hosting separate clubs and dinner parties from my apartment in New York City. My friends were then saying you need to put this on social media. I started sharing the recipes I was creating. And they were low waste recipes. I was using the entire ingredients saying you're eating cauliflower, this roasted cauliflower, but I'm using up everything. The leaves, the core, everything's being included. And people are kind of like, I've never seen this before. They've cocked their head to this site, and they lean back in their chairs. And they think, this is cauliflower using the whole ingredient. I didn't know you can use the leaves, or the broccoli stem, or the tops of the carrots. So I started going on social media, and then that kind of took off. And more and more people around the world started taking notice, and then I ended up going to different cities and countries to host dinner parties and separate clubs. And here I am.
Justine Reichman: And is that how you ended up in the UK?
Max La Manna: Yes. In 2018, I came over to the UK to visit because I noticed in my social media, the data and the analytics that the majority, the chunk of my audience, my community were based in London. About 55% of my audience was just in London. Not the UK, just London, 55%.
Justine Reichman: Did you figure out who they are and why these people were so--
Max La Manna: Yeah. I knocked on every single door and said, hello. And they said, hey, come on. Come in for a cuppa, come in for a tea. No. I'm just looking for my community. I went over to the UK and I thought I need to connect with my community and see, I need to share my joy and passion with those who are supporting me through social media. So I ended up making a tour of the UK, in London hosting dinner parties and separate clubs, cooking demonstrations, those sorts of things. And then I ended up meeting my wife, and they haven't gotten rid of me since. So I'm still here.
Justine Reichman: That's amazing. So when you met your community, did you figure out why there was such a large population of people in the UK versus anywhere else? Was there something about their value system? Was there something about the community itself?
Max La Manna: I think it was mainly because I'm cooking plant based dishes, and there's a large vegan and plant based vegetarian community in the UK. I think roughly 25% of the UK population are plant based. So for me, it was preaching to the choir so they welcomed me with open arms.
Justine Reichman: That's amazing. So now that you've found your community, I'm sure it is growing in all other cities and countries around the world. Have you seen a really large impact in the movement?
Max La Manna: Working on social media, working on these platforms, it's hard sometimes. Because I feel like I'm in this echo chamber. My head is constantly on my laptop or on my phone doing work constantly. So sometimes, it feels a bit difficult to understand the impact until I meet people, until I go somewhere. I was recently in Amsterdam promoting the release of my cookbook. You can cook this but in the Dutch translation. Yeah, there it is. I had people who were American, who were there visiting on holiday saying, are you Max La Manna? And so yeah, I think when you go to a different country and then there's people from other different countries who are in that country at the same time, and they noticed you, I think that put a smile on my face and thought, okay, yeah. Maybe what I'm doing is reaching people around the world, and then maybe last year, I received information that my recipe videos on the platforms that I post on have reached over 1 billion views. So I thought, okay, so there are people out there who have seen my content. They may not follow me, but they've seen my face before they've seen my recipes.
Justine Reichman: That's amazing. I'm really curious to know, and I don't know that this would be sort of a whole research initiative. But with your reach being so great and broad, what's the impact of it from people that maybe adapted this skill to be able to use your recipes, be inspired to go into the kitchen, and use the rest of the product versus previously when people were not exposed to this information. That would be interesting to me to know.
Max La Manna: Yeah. I have conversations with people when I meet them. I always ask, do you cook any of my recipes? Have you tried anything? Sometimes, people feel inclined. They do share this without me even having to ask them, because I always have to think I wouldn't be in the position I'm in if it weren't for the people who support me through commenting, and liking, and sharing, and following me, or buying a cookbook, or going to an event, or coming to a dinner of mine. I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in. So I'm constantly giving praise and thanks to those in my community and asking my community what foods they're throwing away, which is the whole kind of spine to the cookbook. I had to do my own research. But receiving that information, that data, that insight gave me the tools to then go and do some more research. So having those conversations with my community, but also having conversations with restaurants. Sometimes, I'm hired to do kind of behind the scenes work, and design menus, and design recipes, and do a little bit of in house work where I can help them save a little bit of money and save some food waste at the same time. So I like what I do. I love my work. I love my job.
Justine Reichman: Going forward, though, are there any new initiatives you're working on? Or are you gonna work on a second book? Are you going to try to plan?
Max La Manna: My plan is to continue to do what I'm doing. My literary agent before the book was released about two weeks before, she said, oh, it's time to think about the next book. If she said this to me about three or four years ago, I would have said, yeah, let's do it. And I thought, in this moment, I need to be present, I need to appreciate where I am at this exact moment. I can't think about the time that this moment, in this particular moment, let me appreciate what I've accomplished and what I've done, and then I can move forward. And we're so constantly thinking about what's going to happen 5, 10 years from now. We might not be here in 5 or 10 years. I might not be here in 5 or 10 years. So I only do not sound wishy washy, or hippie dippie. However, you want to take it. But it's important to be in this present moment. But I'd love to continue doing what I'm doing. I know things will evolve, and things will elevate, and things will continue to transpire.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I'm curious. I know that you've settled in the UK, do you see yourself going to other countries as your community grows?
Max La Manna: I think I'll continue to live in the UK. I like it here. My wife is British, and we live in the countryside. We live just outside of London. I'm in and out of London every couple of days. I was gonna say I enjoy the weather. I don't enjoy the weather here. It's so gray. It's so gray and cloudy. The first year I moved here, it was like the best year ever. It was sunny every single day. Maybe it rains once a week, and everyone thought that this is the best year for weather in the UK. And I thought, well, I don't know what you guys are complaining about this great weather. It hasn't happened.
Justine Reichman: I have game experience. I was like, I think these people are making it up. And then I found out that France has more rain than London, or than England, or the UK. Yes, like Paris. So I was like, I think you guys are just misguided.
Max La Manna: Oh, my goodness. Being here in the UK, I'm two hours from Paris on a train, I'm four hours to Amsterdam, I'm very close on a train so I try to take the train whenever I can. If it's within 10 hours, I'll take it by train. So yeah, I love being able to travel throughout Europe.
Justine Reichman: Yeah, the accessibility is just amazing. I remember back when I was there. You take the TGV from Paris to Lausanne, you could take Ryanair if you needed to for five pounds. Of course, I'm dating myself here when I say five pounds. But you can hop on Ryanair, EasyJet or whatever, and go wherever. When I was living in London and we had the Queen's Jubilee, I couldn't get out of there quicker. I was like, it's gonna be mayhem. I need to leave after my flight to Amsterdam. But that accessibility, you just have access to so much culture and opportunity.
Max La Manna: Yeah, I get this question from folks who say, do you miss the states? I said, well, yeah, I miss my family, I miss my friends. But you could travel for hours and still be in the same state.So being able to have the accessibility of culture, and language, and food, and cuisine, and pick a direction and just travel two hours in that direction and you're in a different speaking territory. So it's great.
Justine Reichman: I couldn't agree more. I live in California now, and this state is huge. You could drive for hours and never leave the state. I could have been to six countries if I was in Germany, France. I mean, go skiing in the Alps, you'll end up within a couple of places depending on which side you go.
Max La Manna: So maybe this is your call to move back over here. Who knows?
Justine Reichman: You don't have to twist my arm too much. I lived in Mexico City which was amazing. But London always has my heart. I have friends there. I like the lifestyle. Everyone was very inclusive on a Friday night. Oh, come over. We're just having dinner. We're going to the pub, come meet us. And I just like that culture, which is similar in some ways to New York where people are inclusive. I grew up in New York City, but I live in California, and I live in Northern California in particular. And the culture is just very different here. There's parts of it that I really appreciate, and really honor the whole food system and accessibility. But in terms of family, etcetera, it's a little bit different, the dynamic works. So that's a whole different conversation. So now that your book has come out, you're in the UK and you're having a lot of content and community, what is the biggest impact for you since you moved to the UK and embraced your community?
Max La Manna: The biggest impact and change for me has been trying new food and trying new cuisine. And again, this is going back to what we just talked about being the accessibility to having Europe on your back door, seeing new food, seeing new cuisine. There's this European way, it's not like that in America. I always think, and maybe you agree with this, maybe you don't. But I always felt like, now I see and feel that America has this identity crisis of trying to find a culture for themselves. And maybe their parents or maybe themselves have grown up in another country and they've come to America. But I feel like in the UK and in Europe, there's a real sense of culture, and there's history. And so seeing cuisines from all walks of life from other countries around the world, I think has made an impact on me as a human being but also as a chef. And it's impacted the way I cook.
Justine Reichman: Which I think is great. Because one of the things that I'm really interested in is culture, and the future of food, and how we integrate culture into food. And so that speaks exactly to what you're talking about. And I think the US kind of lacks it in terms of forward thinking, or at least I haven't been exposed to it quite in the same way. So where often people go, fall back on their heritage foods, they haven't really elevated to consider some of the new ways of thinking the better for you foods, or how do you eat in a better way for you and the planet because they're falling back on some of these things. And I think that if we had more exposure, like you do to these different countries, and seeing what they're doing, and being creative, and then collaborating with our thoughts, with your experience, and what you learn there, there's ways to create or to include culture in the food in the new paradigm, so to speak.
Max La Manna: Absolutely. You said that beautifully.
Justine Reichman: Oh, thank you. Because that's one thing I'm really passionate about, because I like ethnic food. There's a lot of stuff that I don't eat, because it doesn't make me feel well. But if we're more educated, and we can figure it out and collaborate with others from different places, we can find out and figure out how to make these things in a way that works for us on the planet.
Max La Manna: So my background, I'm Italian and French. I visited Italy for the first time last year. So I didn't go there when I was a kid. Never went to Europe as a child, parents never took us over there. So being able to go in my 30's to Italy, traveling through Tuscany, and trying to go into the small villages and eating food that was grown by some grandmother or family in their back garden, and they have a restaurant or small cafe, and have the simplest ingredients. Like we mentioned before, a slice of tomato with a little bit of olive oil and salt. You're like, what did you do to this tomato? I had it in a backyard, with sunlight and water. That's it. But there's something beautiful about food. I always say, food can bring people together. Doesn't matter your background, who you are, what you believe in, what your political stances in the world don't matter. Your language, food could bring people together.
Justine Reichman: I couldn't agree more. That's why I like to create food and invite people over. It brings people together. As you said, as we said earlier, it's my love language too. That is how I don't enjoy just cooking for myself. I enjoy cooking for people, and I'm not a chef. I'm a hobby chef.
Max La Manna: There's means on social media that show chefs after cooking for 10 hours in a restaurant. Dishes for 200, 300 plus people, they go home and they make themselves like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I remember coming home after long shifts and 2:00, 3:00 o'clock in the morning and just having a bowl of Cheerios. I enjoy cooking for other people. Even today, this morning, I went for a walk and there's a gentleman who's a builder who's fixing a house next door. He'd fix something outside of my house. I saw him, do you want anything to eat? And he's like, no, no, I'm fine. I'm like, you sure? He's like, no, no, that's fine. I'm like, how about a coffee? And he's like, yeah, I'll have a coffee.
Justine Reichman: That's what I've always like, food and coffee.
Max La Manna: Food, coffee? Are you good? You want some water? I think it just brings me so much happiness being able to provide something to someone. I love that.
Justine Reichman: I agree. I think this is so amazing. I'm so happy that you were able to share this. I'm curious, if we had more people, if we have other people that are not familiar with You Can Cook This or Max La Manna, how would they find you? What's the best way to connect?
Max La Manna: You can find me in the UK. Follow me, fine. Come and find me. I'll put up the bat signal in the sky. You can find me on social media, my name is Max La Manna. So I'm on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and Pinterest. I'm everywhere.
Justine Reichman: Wow. So just to digress for one second creating all that social content. I know many of the people that we work with are always wondering because you're a content creator. Where did you start with that process and grow it just because you're on so many platforms?
Max La Manna: I think there's a lot of variables that come into place and into why I'm probably successful at what I do. But I think when I speak to my community, and the feedback I received, it's approachable, it's accessible, it's easy. You make it look fun, you make it look easy. It looks simple. I want to cook whatever you're cooking. So I think making it simple for anyone at home to go, oh, I have those ingredients. I don't use special fancy ingredients. I have them. I don't use them. I don't use them in my recipe videos. I know that the average person and the recipes in this book are ingredients that everyone's probably going to have in their cupboard or in their fridges. So making it at that base where it's simple and easy for someone to go look at their phone and go, okay, I got those ingredients. I'm gonna go and cook this meal and not make a whole big, take a bite and do this. You can tell when someone bites into food and they make that face like, oh, this is good. Eating and let the food touch your tongue yet and you're already saying, oh, that's delicious. So I tried to just make it real. You can't lie about food. You can tell if it doesn't look good, it's gonna be all over your face. Food doesn't lie.
Justine Reichman: So what's your favorite recipe in your book?
Max La Manna: My favorite recipe? Oh, this is like asking who my favorite child is. And I don't have any children. So I guess my recipes are my children. My favorite recipe in the book is my tofu butter chicken. I have two tofu butter chicken, which is tofu that's been pressed, removed from the water, ripped into pieces, big chunks of pieces coated and cornflower baked in the oven. So you get this golden brown outside layer. Nice and crispy, inside is soft. Then I make this curry sauce with onions, garlic and ginger with tomato paste and spices, and make it warm, creamy, and comforting. velvety Baladi? Yeah, let's call it baladi. It's a silky and creamy curry sauce with coconut milk. I add the crispy, crunchy tofu inside the sauce. Serve it with rice or none. Some fresh herbs on top, squeeze a lemon lime zest and lime juice. Tofu butter chicken or I have a cauliflower ragu which uses the whole entire cauliflower. So I just cut up the cauliflower into chunks and then food process it until it's all kind of resembling the same texture. Cook that into 10 tablespoons of tomato puree. So almost the entire tube of tomato puree tomato paste with some garlic and then that is the Ragu. So you have this no waste cauliflower ragu that you could serve with pasta.
Justine Reichman: I'm very hungry. Now. I don't know about you. I don't know what you're making for dinner. I gotta go make breakfast, but what are your plans for dinner?
Max La Manna: Dinner's around the corner. My wife has made some spinach gnocchi. I'm helping her. I'm helping her, again, in the kitchen a little bit more. I love cooking. So whenever she gets in the kitchen, I'm grateful. But I tend to kick her out of the kitchen. I'll cook, you can do the dishes. I ended up doing the dishes afterwards anyway. So spinach gnocchi. I'm going to do some sort of, I think like an herbaceous pesto with the spinach gnocchi.
Justine Reichman: Send me some pictures after.
Max La Manna: Sounds good. Send me your breakfast.
Justine Reichman: Okay. Anyway, Max, thank you so much for joining me. I'm excited to dig into your book and we'll make sure to share all of the links for everyone listening or watching in our show notes. So thanks again.
