S6 Ep10: Harnessing The Power Of Local Seafood Through Sustainable Fishing with Shareen Davis
“We put so many different things in our bodies now. I think the cleaner we eat, the better we are.” — Shareen Davis
Our oceans are an incredibly valuable resource— home to some of the world's most majestic and diverse marine life. Unfortunately, our current fishing systems continue to threaten the health and balance of our aquatic ecosystems.
That's why sustainable fishing is a vital practice for the preservation of our water resources. It helps to protect endangered species, reduce bycatch, and create more sustainable seafood supplies. Additionally, it promotes ocean health, improves the livelihoods of fishing communities, and reduces environmental damage from overfishing. By taking steps to implement sustainable fishing practices in our fisheries communities, we can help make a difference for future generations.
Chatham Harvesters is a cooperative that harvests and sells Cape Cod seafood. By utilizing their resources and implementing innovative strategies to empower the local fishing community, they have been able to create a sustainable business model that benefits everyone involved. This proves that sustainable seafood practices are possible when there is a collective effort.
In this episode, we will take a look at the innovative initiatives that Chatham Harvesters has implemented to promote sustainability and how they empower the local fishing community. Justine and Shareen also discuss the challenges of sustainably managing fishing and marine resources, the importance of economic empowerment for fishermen, the difference between eating local catch vs farm-raised seafood, and how to bridge the gap between local farmers and the community.
Connect with Shareen:
Shareen has years of experience in seafood consulting, visual art, and writing. Through her work and writing, she aims to provide insight into the issues facing our local fishing communities. She also hopes to raise awareness about the importance of sustainability in our food system and help people understand how they can make a difference.
Shareen also serves as the Program Developer and Cook at Chatham Harvesters, a cooperative that is owned and operated by fishermen themselves. Their mission is to build community involvement in local fishing while ensuring that consumers receive quality local seafood at reasonable prices. To achieve these goals, they focus on increasing access to abundant species markets, educating the public about cleanly harvesting whole animals from fisheries, and creating collective economic stability.
Connect with Chatham Harvesters:
Episode Highlights:
00:53 Reconnecting Seafood Loving Communities to Local Catch
04:00 Local Catch vs. Farm-Raised Fish
10:38 Connecting Fishermen and the Community
15:04 The Fair Price Conversation
21:26 Crafting a Business Model That Benefits All
Resources:
Website
Tweets:
Our aquatic ecosystem is at risk and it is our responsibility to restore it to health for generations to come. Join in as @jreichman and Chatham Harvesters' Program Developer Shareen David discuss how we can ensure the longevity of our oceans and all marine life living in it. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #ChathamHarvesters #fishermen #seafood #localcatch #aquaculture #sustainablefishing
Inspirational Quotes:
04:30 "People had a better sense and understanding of the seasonality of their fish. Right now, they import a lot of fish… and so people are not aware that things aren't local anymore." —Shareen Davis
07:03 "There is industrialization that's happened within the fisheries… It seems to be more of a factory farming scenario than it is a healthy way to produce seafood." —Shareen Davis
14:41 "We put so many different things in our bodies now. I think the cleaner we eat, the better we are." —Shareen Davis
17:48 "Everybody deserves to make a living wage, everybody deserves to get paid appropriately… If it's a fair price, I believe people deserve to be paid." —Justine Reichman
22:10 "As we evolve, we have to grow up. We have to do things differently and we will have to adjust." —Justine Reichman
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host Justine Reichman for the Essential Ingredients Podcast, and today I'm so pleased to have with me Shareen Davis, from Chatham Harvesters Coop. And she is both the Program Director and the Cook. I am just excited to learn more about you, Shareen and the products that you specifically cook for. So if you would for those not familiar with Chatham Harvesters Coop, as well as those products that you cook for, maybe you can make a quick little intro for us.
Shareen Davis: Sure. So I'm Shareen Davis and I'm for a Chatham Harvesters Cooperative. And basically, our mission is to reconnect the seafood loving community with its local catch, the fishing families that catch it and the ecosystem that provides it all. So basically, what we are doing is taking locally abundant seafood, and we're selling it direct to the community in different forms, whether it's glade or it's a value added product. So some of the fish that we are working with presently, that people might not know a lot about our skate, monk fish, dogfish. And dogfish--
Justine Reichman: Dogfish?
Shareen Davis: Yes, dogfish.
Justine Reichman: That's new for me. I don't know this one.
Shareen Davis: So it's a typically, basically, it's a white fish and it's very abundant. It's not very expensive here on the cape. And what we've been trying to do for the last six years is bring more attention to this particular product. And our fishermen handle the fish really well. So we're able to, you know, make all kinds of different things. Right now we're doing dog fish filets, which are very popular, but we're making what are called shark bites, because they are shark. They're some another term for our cake shark. So we're making these sort of fish cakes and we're calling shark bites, and people love them. And we make chowder-- monk fish chowder, which is a chowder base. Very basic, good fish doc to begin with. Monk, potato, onion, very basic and it comes in its own liquid. You can add whatever you want to it. So if you're, you know, lactose intolerant, you might want to use a coconut milk, if you're, you know, if you would like a tomato base, you can do all kinds of things with that. We were also smoking fish. So we smoked mackerel. Mackerel is a very abundant seasonal fish on the cape. And it's wildly popular. We're also doing clam pies. We have a very prolific wild shell fisheries in Chatham, and on the Cape we have a lot of aquaculture. Sowe're taking what we have here and making things from them. So we're not importing anything, and we're supporting our local fishing fleet. We have a value statement to provide them with a fair price for their catch. And what we do is we educate the consumer, so that they get to know their fishermen and know their catch. We label everything, what boat it came from, and in our social media promotion will promote that captain's boat, his crew. We'll tell the lifestyle, we'll do all kinds of things that really sort of bring it home for somebody to sort of know their community fisheries.
Justine Reichman: So Shareen, why is it so important in this day and age to focus locally and on building the community there? Because in the past we didn't focus on that. A, why is it so important? B, how do you think it came about to build a community around this? What do you think really brought that to light all the sudden, I mean, not all of a sudden today, but
"People had a better sense and understanding of the seasonality of their fish. Right now, they import a lot of fish… and so people are not aware that things aren't local anymore." —Shareen Davis
Shareen Davis: So a lot of things happened in fisheries, and not to complicate it, but it was regulatory issues that came up, you know, over overfishing in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s, shifts and change in climate. But when I was younger, and my husband and I were commercial fishing, people would know what season a fish was, where it came from, you know, oh, it's April, the Mackerel must be running in Chatham. Let's go down to the dock and grab a Mackerel. You know, people had a better sense and understanding of the seasonality of their fish. When the regulars, this is my theory, it's not scientific by any means. But I lived in my community for a while so I kind of get a sense of it. When there was regulation start to happen and they're starting to sort of guys weren't catching as much fish, particularly cod fish. I think fish buyers, there was still consumer demand for it so fish buyers would import to the Cape, you know fish from another port. Right now they import a lot of cod fish from Iceland. And so people haven't been aware. They're not aware that things aren't local anymore. And I think one of the biggest things on our menus right now on Cape Cod should be our local catch. The two top things are salmon, and shrimp and neither one of them are local caught. Most of it that you get in the restaurants, Ella and some fish markets are farm raised, which, you know, you can debate the healthiness of farmers fish. So basically, what we're saying is, you can, you know, with climate change and change in shifts, and now we have all these different species around us, and we have for the last 10 or 15 years, we're trying to market and educate the consumers and say, Look, this is really healthy seafood. It's right in your back door. It's just you haven't really tried it. Try it. It's great. Monkfish tastes like lobster. Scad has a quality of cod-- like a scallop. And you know, dog fish is like any sort of white meat fish, like, haddock cod, it's just a mild taste. So all these things are, you know, are really important for us to be able to support our local fishing fleet, and educate the our customers and consumers.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I think it's so important. And I'm curious, because we talk a lot about farmers and one of the things I really like to do on the podcast is to level the playing field for everyone. And farm raised, you know, it was a big conversation. And I think that oftentimes we ask, but many times people don't actually know what it means to be farm raissers. So if you could just go into that a little bit?
"There is industrialization that's happened within the fisheries… It seems to be more of a factory farming scenario than it is a healthy way to produce seafood." —Shareen Davis
Shareen Davis: I'm not an expert on farm raised fish by any means. I've only wild caught. So I can only speak to what I see as a value to having something I feel like it takes-- we have a prolific wild shell fisheries and wild fisheries. It's, you know, but there is this industrialization that incorporatization that's happened within the fisheries. Let's put pens out and put and grow fish from it. This is an efficient way to, you know, grow and harvest seafood. But is it the healthiest way to do it and is it good for the communities? Does it take away from that owner operator, fishing boat captain that goes out? It just doesn't seems. It seems to be more of like a factory farming sort of scenario, than it is a healthy way to to produce seafood.
Justine Reichman: Have you gone and seen any farm raised-- have you gone to any communities or any places where you can see?
Shareen Davis: I have. I have. I get really concerned when I hear things like, we're going to do land based fish farming, and there is pushes in different states for this to happen. And again, I think the argument has always been there is an abundance of-- there isn't an abundance of seafood and we can manage this well and this is a way that we lower the carbon footprint, but basically, it's impacting the landmass. And I don't know. I don't want fish that's raised on land. I mean, we have a healthy ocean, we should
Justine Reichman: I can't even envision and I'm not judging one way or the other, right?
Shareen Davis: No, no.
Justine Reichman: I can't even envision though raising it on lands. Like that's not something I can wrap my head around, maybe--
Shareen Davis: Me neither.
Justine Reichman: Okay. So I don't know what that would look like. I'm curious because it's new and innovative and I'm not saying that that's where I want it to go. I'm just saying, I'm curious and I want to learn, which is why I asked you what your experience has been and what you've seen mostly because I'm unfamiliar with it.
Shareen Davis: Yeah. I could see where that could fall into this and how that could be expanding the market there.
Shareen Davis: So I have experienced aquaculture, which is sea farming for shellfish and that's done and managed very well. And it's managed by mostly owner operators, small boat fishermen in Massachusetts. The style that we're doing isn't these big industrial companies coming in and saying you know what, we're gonna take over and a whole town's resource and acres and acres of land. This is like individuals, like in wealthy Massachusetts. They're all like one guy with two acres of land in the ocean, where he cultivates clams-- hardshell clams and oysters. And then he and his other guys around him, probably 100 other guys, collectively sell their product to different companies and oysters are some of the most famous oysters in the country or probably around the world. I mean, that kind of agriculture or farming. A farm raised is has a little more of a community sustainability factor to it, and they're highly regulated by state and local authority. So I think when we look at farm raised fish, you're often looking at corporate entities doing that. It's usually typically not individuals doing that kind of effort.
Shareen Davis: So we've been a result of that with the salmon fisheries obviously. I get my salmon from the guys in Alaska. I'll order from those guys, we'll ship here and whatnot. And that's great, because I know it's a wild caught, and it's delicious.
Justine Reichman: Okay. So to that point, right, let's talk about eating locally, let's talk about your local fisheries. And you get your salmon from Alaska. So I know that eating locally is big, building your community with your local fisheries, but you can't get everything there. And so you want to get your salmon from Alaska, because you prefer your wild caught salmon from Alaska versus your farm raise salmon. So I'd love to hear from you, how do you decide what you're going to do, how you're going to do that, and to make the choice to get the wild caught, as opposed to just focusing on locally, which there's no judgement for me, I'm just trying to learn where your head is at and how people can make an informed choice here. Because, to me, it's all about balance, right?
Shareen Davis: It is, yeah. Totally it is. And understandably, you know, I can hear somebody say, oh, my gosh, she's talking about climate change, and she's having her fish shipped from Alaska. But I don't do it often, I do it as once a year or something, I might get something. But what I'm part of, and what our organization supports is a organization called local catch.org, which is a network of core based, you know, businesses like ours, that value the ecosystem, value the community that's working, you know, on the water, and the fish that they're catching. So we have friends in Alaska doing similar things that we're doing so we're sort of connected in that way. And that's a nice thing to do. And matter of fact, local catch.org, you can go on their website. You can find locally sourced fish all over the country. They have sort of a mapping that they do, which is really kind of interesting. So there might be some guys in California that are part of that, and Alaska, and then down in the Carolinas, Louisiana, Florida. So we're all sort of interconnected. But again, speaking to that locality sort of issue is we are those folks that are saying, you know, here you have this abundant, protein, it's healthy try it. It's not your typical, and we've had, you know, a really good success story around it. And we love to teach people about our fish and how to cook it, and how to prepare it. So when we're doing farmers markets, it's really interesting that people say, Okay, I'll try the dog fish, how should I cook it? And we're fully prepared to tell them, you know, some basics, and we support them with some recipes. And, you know, we don't have a hotline, you know, people are, you know, they're savvy, they can get on the internet, and they can find stuff and things like that, but it's fun. I mean, it's fun to talk about what we have here, and that brings a lot of value to the people that are catching it. And they feel proud in their effort. And that's part of some of the things that have happened with fishermen that have been so highly regulated and told that they're, you know, they're not doing good by the kind of fishing they're doing. This is more about, you know, it's about a community court sort of connection. So it's happening all over the country. It's just we're here on the Cape.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I'm curious. I love fish. I eat a lot of fish. As we kicked off our conversation before we got started talking about well fleeted oysters and all sorts of things and my love of clams. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on, you know, talking about creating the lab grown fish. Do you have any thought?
"We put so many different things in our bodies now. I think the cleaner we eat, the better we are." —Shareen Davis
Shareen Davis: I mean, that just like, all I can think of is Frankenfish. I work with a lot of scientists. Ee work with a lot of scientists in our lives as fishers. So, you know, we have collaborations oftentimes, but again, you know, is it necessary that we start to produce lab based foods? I mean, why aren't we going back to a more sustainable ways of raising and sourcing our foods? Wouldn't that be the best way to do it? You know, I'm just not-- we put so much different things in our bodies now. I think the cleaner we eat, the better we are. I can't even wrap my head around that right now.
Justine Reichman: I hear ya. I mean, I gotta ask because new innovations around us and, I mean, part of it is people trying to find alternatives. There's people that don't eat fish that love the taste of fish, all sorts of things. Right?
Shareen Davis: I also think it's sourcing too, whether it's available in their communities, let's talk about, you know, the Midwest or food deserts within cities or whatever. I mean, where can people get healthy food and protein? I mean, it's not just seafood, if you look at the bigger picture. So, I don't know, I mean, where does somebody from Kansas City get their fish? Do they get it from a big food hub that's shipping in fish or where's it coming from? So I don't know. I mean, we're lucky, we're lucky we're on the coasts. We can access this. We can often access, and we may pay a premium price for it. But you have to recognize there are people that are needing to eat, you know, want to eat fish that doesn't have a high cost to it. So, high price. I'm not talking cost is health, too. So
Justine Reichman: Yes, of course. I mean, I don't know if I told you, I went to the farmers market by my house here in Berlin. And I really wanted a lobster. I haven't had one when I'm not living on the East Coast. They're not expensive on the East. I mean, they're affordable on the East Coast, or at least they were the last time I lived in New York. I don't know what's affordable anymore.
Shareen Davis: Prices vary.
Justine Reichman: Prices vary. But in any case, I went to the farmers market and they bring them in from Maine and it was like $40 a pound for uncooked lobster.
Shareen Davis: And the fisherman probably got eight bucks for that.
Justine Reichman: I have no idea. I was like, that's ridiculous. $40 a pound for uncooked lobster, given I'm from the East Coast. And I remember, you know, going to get a lobster. I remember going in Maine to go get lobsters. Different places. I was like, that's ridiculous. I was like [inaudible] to New York, you know, on a plane and get lobster.
Shareen Davis: I was talking to a friend who lives in New York City last year. And she shot this picture of a fish market in her neighborhood. And it said Nantucket bay scallops at $5 a pound. And I knew what these guys were getting a pound and it was an anywhere near at. And I just got this really sad email yesterday that they're having trouble marketing and getting rid of their scallops this year, because there's an abundance of them in other parts of the Cape. And it's really, you know, price is such a factor with fishermen. They're either getting this high price, or super low and it depends on volume and everything. So it's for the consumer-- Yeah.
"Everybody deserves to make a living wage, everybody deserves to get paid appropriately… If it's a fair price, I believe people deserve to be paid." —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: I mean, I think everybody deserves to make a living wage, everybody deserves to get paid appropriately and make their money. But I think when there's these really, really high prices, like $85, or $40 a pound for an uncooked lobster that to me is just, I don't want to call it price gouging, but it's like the toilet paper was $20 when we had COVID in the beginning, like, if it's a fair price, I believe people deserve to be paid.
Shareen Davis: Well, there's layers to that costs that went up once it got to you. And that's some of the things we're trying to address in a more local way is, you know, we want fishermen to have a fair price. And oftentimes we're able to pay them 20% above their auction price and that they would be getting if they sold it in no bad furred. At this point, we're not able to do a high volume. We're just a startup per se, we have a great customer base, and we're building on that. But it's really interesting that what, you know, we want people to be able to pay for it and afford it as well. So we're trying to find that balance. And being a cooperative, we sort of can because we're sort of like, you know, in that sort of way where we can do farmers markets, direct sales, hey, come down to our processor, knock on the door, we'll sell you some fish. You know, we're kind of an organic sort of anomaly right now. And people love it. People love it.
Justine Reichman: That's great. And I think that the mentality has changed a little. I remember when I was younger, and I grew up in New York City, and everybody wanted to deal, not that we all don't want to. But I feel like I really just wanted to have a lot more. And now, I really want to make sure that everybody's getting paid fairly. And I don't want to overpay but we all want to make sure that, I mean I have a startup too, and this one does, and I think everybody just needs to make a living be able to pay their rent pay their health care, food on the table for their kids and their family and I think that's the point right? We can't all do these things make the world a better place, but just take.
Shareen Davis: Right. So we end up oftentimes talking with the fishermen about their price. Will say so, you know what do you think the gets the best deal? What do you need or what do you think-- what do you want for us? What they're used to our fish buyers doing exactly what you say. They're haggling down. They'll say, oh, you know, we can't do that. We got to, you know, now you're gonna kill me, you know, you're gonna kill my profit. And this is the sort of the world that fishermen have lived in. So we value you, we want to work with you, and we work with the customer and consumer to educate them, so they value you too.
Justine Reichman: I think that at the end of the day, what I found with my startup and through the last 10 years, is it's really about transparency and being direct. Where in the past, it was more about keep holding it close to the vest, and not sharing everything. But now if you're open and you're honest, and you don't need to, you know, say everything, but really being forthcoming about the expenses, and this and that, and everybody's got expenses, but to say, you know, this is where I'm at. In order for me to be able to do this, I need to do this, and you're being transparent. If people know that you're only making 10%, or you're not gouging them, they're gonna feel better about it.
Shareen Davis: Yes.
Justine Reichman: And I think that, you know, at a certain point, you know, when you get to be really big and everything, that's a different story, right? You're playing a different game, but we're talking about small startups and we're talking about in the beginning, when you're establishing relationships and rapport.
Shareen Davis: Definitely, I think that and that sets the tone for going forward. You know, when we have to sometimes check ourselves and look back and say, you know, oh, we're thinking about expanding to x. Well, have we talked to the fishermen in that area? Is there collaboration opportunities we can do, we don't want to over step our bounds to what they're already working on. So what we're trying to do, you know, and you might have some listeners saying, Ah, they're never gonna make it with this kind of business model. This is not-- but this is how we offer, you know, I like to work. This is how our coop members like to work. And, you know, I think we have a good thing that we're doing, we feel good at the end of the day.
"As we evolve, we have to grow up. We have to do things differently and we will have to adjust." —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: I think so. And I think as you evolve, as we evolve, as you grow, we have to grow up, we have to do things differently. And we will have to adjust, right? You know, you can't-- you're not always going to do everything like that. You may not lay all your cards out on the table, even when you're negotiating, even when you're creating partnerships. But when you are making those initial partnerships, and we're talking about, you know, how many customers or how you're doing-- in the beginning, I think it's really important to be transparent. You don't want to oversell and under deliver.
Shareen Davis: Yeah.
Justine Reichman: I think that's really important. So what's new and what's next for you guys on the horizon>
Shareen Davis: So what we are doing is, we are going to expand some of our food that we're doing and expand this shark bites that I talked about earlier, making these fish cakes out of dog fish. And we are actually launching a membership share program, kind of like a community supported agriculture. You know, I mean, agriculture CSAs, where you go to the farm, and you pick up your bag as well, we do it with fish. But what we do is we're offering an opportunity for folks to sign up for three months. And they have a menu of things that they can choose from including some frozen products, you know, a value added products and fresh products. And they have three months, they can pay, you know, anywhere from $100 to $500 for the three months, and they basically buy down and buy, you know, they get a credit for the money that they do upfront. We're able to support our local fishing fleet and they get to buy down through the three months get their fish once a week at different locations around the Cape. And in turn, they will also be able to come and see some cooking demonstrations. We get recipes were sort of writing this sort of tale of, you know, stories about around the shore, so they get to know the fishermen better. And in September, we're going to host a membership harvest festival like us Harvest Dinner where you can come and enjoy some seafood with the fishermen and the coop members.
Justine Reichman: Nice. That sounds good. Well, I hope you'll keep me up to date. So the next time that [inaudible] on the Cape, I can participate or pop in. And if folks wanted to check out your website, learn more about it, or for those on the East Coast or up in Massachusetts, how might they go about checking you guys out and learning more?
Shareen Davis: Our website is easy. It's Chathamharvesters.com. or you can get on our Instagram social media at Chatham Harvesters and be led to those directions.
Justine Reichman: Thanks so much for joining me this morning.
Shareen Davis: Thank you. It's been lovely talking to you. I really appreciate it.
Justine Reichman: Likewise, and I hope you'll send us maybe some hot, you know when our recipes that we can share with our folks. Talk to you soon, thank you so much.
Shareen Davis: Thank you very much.
Justine Reichman: Have a great afternoon. Bye bye.
Shareen Davis: You too. Bye bye.
