S5 Ep6: Preserving the Future of the Caviar Industry with Sustainable Farming Systems with Petra Bergstein
“I know that if I’m willing to work for it, I can keep working.” — Petra Bergstein
Caviar is a delicacy that's enjoyed all over the world. But it's not just about eating it on crackers or as an hors d'oeuvre—caviar can be used in many different ways: from baking to cocktails, to salads and desserts.
Caviar is a very delicate and scarce commodity, which means that if we're not responsible enough to preserve and protect it, it will be gone forever. The only way to ensure that this precious resource will be available for future generations is to create a sustainable system for its production. This is why we need to take a moment to examine the current state of one of the world's most expensive food.
The Caviar Co. was born when two sisters opened their own caviar business in San Francisco. Petra Bergstein-Higby and her older sister, Saskia wanted to share their passion for caviar with the world in an approachable and sustainable way. They also wanted to educate the people about this exquisite delicacy, not only to help them find the right caviar for their taste buds but also to hold caviar companies accountable to keep them from deceitfully mislabeling their products.
The caviars available at The Caviar Co. are not wild-caught but come from farms that have their own broodstock. They also make sure that the well-being of the fishes was well taken care of and has reached a mature age before they were harvested.
Listen in as Justine and Petra help us understand caviar and its different types more, how the caviar companies can follow a sustainable course in their farming methods, how to overcome self-doubt when starting a passion project, and Petra’s advice for entrepreneurs who wish to grow their business.
Connect with Petra:
Petra Bergstein-Higby didn't think about caviar much growing up in Texas, but now it has become her passion. After graduating from Texas University, her first job was in a caviar company. She did everything she could to learn everything about the caviar trade— from spawning to processing and sales. In 2015, she and her sister Saskia founded The Caviar Co. and were able to expand their business with their newest shop at Tiburon.
When Saskia got married and moved back to Texas, Petra became the sole owner of the company. When she's out of the office, Petra enjoys spending time with her husband, Alex and their daughter, Adriana.
Episode Highlights:
02:58 The Cool Side of the Hospitality Industry
06:43 How to be Sustainable
10:01 Get to Know Your Caviar
17:14 Keep Working for It!
21:13 What’s Next for The Caviar Co.?
Tweets:
Sustainable caviar farming is one of the most exciting things going on in the world of agriculture. Join @jreichman and The Caviar Company Founder, Petra Bergstein as they help us get to know our caviar better. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #CaviarCo #caviar #caviarlovers #finedining #sturgeons #sustainablefarming #sustainablefood #sustainableliving #foodie
Inspirational Quotes:
04:04 “Chefs are very selfless individuals. They do come from a place of nourishment. They want to take care of people.” -Petra Bergstein
09:32 “It's a whole story. You can't just read one chapter out of a book. You read the book from start to finish.” -Petra Bergstein
12:09 “We need to educate them on [caviar] so that way they know what their preferences are and what characteristics to look for whenever they're buying. But not only for their preference but also for holding caviar companies accountable.” -Petra Bergstein
14:35 “In order to learn about anything else, you need a reference point.” -Petra Bergstein
19:58 “I know that if I'm willing to work for it, I can keep working.” -Petra Bergstein
20:41 “You can't be an entrepreneur if you're not willing to put it all on the line.” -Justine Reichman
20:58 “If your team doesn't see you working really hard, it's not going to motivate them to work really hard.” -Justine Reichman
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Good afternoon, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm Justine Reichman, your host. Today with me is Petra Bergstein. She is the Co-Founder with her sister of The Caviar Co.
Welcome, Petra.
Petra Bergstein: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Justine Reichman: I'm so pleased that I hopefully correctly introduced you. I aim for perfection, or I strive for perfection.
Petra Bergstein: Very stressful. Yeah, that's a big goal to reach. No, I completely understand.
Justine Reichman: Well, it's great to meet you. It's great to chat with you. I'm so excited to learn a little bit about Caviar Co and you. I know I'm a fan. But for those that are not familiar with Caviar Co, it is a caviar company and they have a lovely location here in Tiburon, which is the one I went to. But I'll let Petra introduce the company and tell you a little bit about it because it's a special company and they're mission driven. I'm excited to hear directly from you a little bit more about it.
Petra Bergstein: Again, thank you so much for having me and your interest in what we're doing. And thank you for coming to see us, come to us twice, we really appreciate it and hope that you've had really great experiences and continue to do so. So I started the Caviar Company with my sister back in 2015, and we actually started out of our apartment in San Francisco. We live together, we moved here together from Texas, and my sister is a CPA so she's the brains behind most things about Caviar Co related, and really helped get the company set up. And then I did the marketing and sales. I've worked for a caviar like direct to consumers. I've had an experience with wholesale mainly marketing, and I worked for a caviar farm prior to starting the company with my sister.
Justine Reichman: You are not native caviar.
Petra Bergstein: No, I'm not. So many people asked me like, how did you get into caviar? I still don't have a quick answer because I feel like it was not something I did not grow up eating caviar. I'm from West Texas so we're kind of aware of--
Justine Reichman: Texas is a big state.
“Chefs are very selfless individuals. They do come from a place of nourishment. They want to take care of people.” -Petra Bergstein
Petra Bergstein: So we're at Texas Tech University. I kind of grew up as a steak and chicken kind of girl, and then I moved out to California and my mind was completely opened when I would go to the farmers market and see this beautiful bright coloured produce, these tomatoes I've never seen so red before. I started eating like salad and trying different things, and understanding how chefs work, and how each ingredient really plays a role in a dish, and really started appreciating chefs and admiring what they do. I just knew something I wanted to be a part of, like the hospitality industry is so cool. If you think about chef's, they work so hard to develop a dish from the R&D sourcing, the ingredients, the execution, putting it all together, and then you think about how long it takes for us consumers to eat a dish. I really feel like chefs are very selfless individuals. They do come from a place of nourishment. They want to take care of people. They create these restaurants and these places for people to come in whether they're celebrating special occasions, whether they're mourning, or they're just coming in for a great dinner, they want to have a great night. They kind of cater to everyone, and so I had to be a part of it.
Justine Reichman: So what was the first time you tried caviar?
Petra Bergstein: The first time I tried caviar was when I was working for a caviar company.
Justine Reichman: Caviar before you work for the caviar company. So you got this, or not the caviar company, but the first time when you got that job, your first job for a caviar company.
Petra Bergstein: It was my first time ever trying it. Because again, I was relatively small minded I think whenever it came to food until I moved out to California and my first job out here was working for a caviar company. I just needed some--
Justine Reichman: Work for a caviar company knowing nothing about caviar.
Petra Bergstein: This is such a good--
Justine Reichman: I'm not trying to be, I'm being blunt. But seriously, tell yourself to get a job--
Petra Bergstein: In the timeline there, when I graduated, I grew up in Lubbock, and then I went to Texas Tech in Lubbock. So by the end of my senior year, by graduation, I was ready to move and get out of town, and finally brave enough to leave because I've always been kind of a homebody, which is funny because now I've been in California for 10 years. But I moved out to Carmel because my aunt was in Carmel and she was like, hey, just come out here. Come check it out with me, hang out with me, let me see what we can do. Let's get you an internship, something fun. I'll reach out to all of my network of friends and see if anyone has anything for you. And she helped me get an internship with coastal luxury management. They are the company that put on LA food and wine, Pebble Beach food and wine, and that's where I got this exposure to all of these chefs. That's where my whole mind, eyes and heart were opened to hospitality. So I missed a step in the transition from loving--
Justine Reichman: Got it. So now we connected the dots. Now we know how you got into food. But there's something special about Caviar Co, and how you source your product that makes you different from the rest. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Petra Bergstein: We really care about it, we try to work with farms that only have brood stock for their own brood stock. For example, the farm that I came from that I used to work for.
Justine Reichman: Where do you get it to that? Can you tell us, for those listeners or viewers that are watching that don't know what broodstock is, can you let us know what broodstock is?
Petra Bergstein: Yeah, of course. So that means that they have their own, like females within the farm that they know, that they have raised, that they're under their supervision the whole time and that they have raised, they take the eggs from them every year through c-section actually, and that's how they create new eggs and new stock to be then harvested down the line for either meat or for caviar. But everything's been done under the same farm because there are a lot of caviar farms all around us, actually. All around Sacramento, it's really fascinating because there's a specific species of sturgeon that is native to our backyard, to the bay is the white sturgeon. And so there are a lot of white sturgeon farms all around California or mainly Sacramento. But what a lot of people do is they'll either buy the fish, mature fish from fish farmers or something like that, but we want to work specifically with Sterling caviar. They have their own brood stock. So they have these females that every year they take for the spawning and they fertilize the eggs with sperm from the males in the farm. I've gotten to be a part of the spawning, and the processing, and things like that at this farm. But that was all been under the same umbrella. They know exactly where these eggs are coming from, what their lineage is and what the diets have been from different generations in the past.
Justine Reichman: What does the flip side of that look like when people don't do it this way.
Petra Bergstein: So a lot of people will take it, purchase mature females from caviar farms, and then they process the caviar themselves. So there are some producers and purveyors who are known just to buy fish, but they haven't been responsible for the upbringing. They haven't been a part of like, they don't have the diet of the waters and have the whole story of the fish. And I think it's a lot harder to know exactly what you're getting whenever that's the case.
Justine Reichman: And so the impact then is on the quality of what you're eating?
“It's a whole story. You can't just read one chapter out of a book. You read the book from start to finish.” -Petra Bergstein
Petra Bergstein: Right. Because it's almost like taking a shortcut. I think it's important to see this Sturgeon through from start to finish, from when they're hatched, to when they're raised throughout their whole life. And then whenever they're processed for caviar, I think it's a whole story, right? You can't just read one chapter out of a book, you read the book from start to finish.
Justine Reichman: So why was this so important to you? Out of all the things in the world you got, you got involved in caviar and its story making sure that people got the best possible caviar, making sure that it was fed properly, that it had the right lifespan. How come that's important to you and making sure that your customers received the best possible caviar?
“We need to educate them on [caviar] so that way they know what their preferences are and what characteristics to look for whenever they're buying. But not only for their preference but also for holding caviar companies accountable.” -Petra Bergstein
Petra Bergstein: I think part of it is that I really do love a challenge. One of the challenges with caviar is getting that message from the very beginning to the end to the consumer when they're enjoying it on their plate is there's so much that happens in between and so much that consumers don't know about. And even from mislabeling, to how the caviar was handled, to where the caviar actually came from. Before we started recording, you were talking about Ossetra that you've always loved Osetra. What's really funny is that Ossetra is one of the most coveted species and types of caviar. People know that now. So these purveyors know that, you'll see that word really overused. For example, if you look on a label and you see Siberian Osetra, there's actually no such thing. Either a Siberian sturgeon, or it's an Osetra sturgeon.
I say it's like calling a Labrador a Boxer. You have your Labrador and you have your Boxer, but you don't have a Labrador Boxer. But because people know about Ossetra being one of the kind of original Caspian caviars, they just tacked the word on. And there are no repercussions really, for doing that. And so that's why we get really excited to what we do because we focused, of course, we want caviar to be approachable. Every caviar company these days says we're making caviar more approachable, more of an everyday indulgence. And that's great. We're totally on board with that. We want to do that too because it is something that can be more in the wine category to where you just open up a bottle of wine. It's the same thing with a jar of caviar, it can actually go just as far as a bottle of wine and costs you just the same. But how are you supposed to know what to open unless you're educated on it? A lot more people are educated on wine than they are on Caviar. They can tell you about, oh, well. I prefer Pinot Noir to Cabernet. Well, how can we get people to say, I actually prefer hackle bags to white sturgeon, because we need to educate them on it so that way they know what their preferences are and what the characteristics are to look for whenever they're buying. Not only for their preference, but also for holding caviar companies accountable. To be able to open up a jar of caviar by, these eggs are really, really small, and they're really dark. There's no way that this is a white sturgeon. Or there's no way that this is clearly a hybrid, there's something fishy going on around.
Justine Reichman: No pun intended. For a beginner that wants to learn about caviar, to understand, or take their first steps or entree into starting to understand the differences in caviar.
“In order to learn about anything else, you need a reference point.” -Petra Bergstein
Petra Bergstein: For me, one thing that I also love about our company is that we do these flights. Whether it's in a gift set online that we're shipping across the country, or we do virtual caviar classes that we started doing during COVID and we've continued to do because you kind of have to have a point of reference, right? Because when my sister and I first started our company, of course, all we were talking about, like, oh, we're starting caviar company. Everyone says, I love caviar, and these caviar nerds that you were like, oh, what's your favorite? Let's talk about it. Where are you getting your caviar from? What states are they coming to? From what country you breed? Whatever. They're like, I just like caviar. I don't know. And that's where we really saw, my sister and I are like, there's a huge void here that people need to realize. Again, that's just being like, I love wine. Well, what's your favorite? What kind of wine do you want to drink tonight? And like, I don't know wine. That's the exact same thing. Like in our minds the same conversation. But in order to learn about wine too or anything else, you need a reference point. So if you can get a flight together and try two to three, to get started, do two to three different types of caviar. Like you've seen in our tasting room, we had these caviar flights where it's like three different--
Justine Reichman: I did that actually.
Petra Bergstein: And hopefully, you were able to, you know what? This second one is my favorite. Or I liked them all for different reasons. Hopefully, they were all distinctively different enough for you to see what the characteristics were some of the eggs were smaller, some of the eggs might have been darker, or lighter, or more decadent, and more rich, and have more texture.
Justine Reichman: Saltier, creamier, all different things. I mean, there were a variety of things.
Petra Bergstein: Exactly. Whenever people are really wanting to learn about caviar, I do recommend getting, starting with two to three, we have 12 different products. You don't have to get all 12 products, start with two to three and then you can cross compare and be like, oh, this half pullback is actually more briny than I like, but the white sturgeon that I'm having right next is really creamy and buttery. So right now, I'm going to stick with a creamy and buttery one and say this white sturgeon is my favorite. And then down the line, try a white sturgeon next to hybrid or Russian etcetera and then you can be understand--
Justine Reichman: You're making my mouth--
Petra Bergstein: Good.
Justine Reichman: That's how the tasting while we were on this podcast. We're gonna have to have a follow up and do a little virtual tasting.
Petra Bergstein: Sure. Like I said, I'm having a baby next week. So then the next time, we can have champagne and--
Justine Reichman: Brilliant, I'm definitely in for that. I think that that would be great. So I'm curious, we get a lot of founders on here, we get a lot of people that are starting businesses. You started this about seven years ago?
Petra Bergstein: Yes, in 2015.
Justine Reichman: And before that, you had worked in the business, but it doesn't sound like you're an entrepreneur before. Is this your first shot at being an entrepreneur?
Petra Bergstein: Yes, it is. But I just graduated from college in 2012.
Justine Reichman: So as an entrepreneur, as a first time around, when you are having great success, you have what? Two places now, San Francisco and Marin?
Petra Bergstein: Yes.
Justine Reichman: What would you tell other entrepreneurs, given your success, lack of experience as an entrepreneur, but experience in the business, what advice might you give them?
Petra Bergstein: I think the most important thing is that I still have to tell myself on a daily basis, because obviously, I do get overwhelmed. I would be lying if I didn't have self doubt too. I come from not a business background. I went to school for Speech, Language and Hearing Sciences so I thought I was going to either be helping with speech impediments or selling hearing aids.
Justine Reichman: I guess audiology.
Petra Bergstein: It was fascinating to me, I loved it, but my path went elsewhere. And so I do have self doubt. Sometimes I'm like, do I know what I'm doing? And what I've learned is I just try to put one foot in front of the other, and I just gotta keep that forward momentum and surround myself with good people. You were just saying where you met Sarah. I have such a great team. I have a really, really good team in San Francisco and a really good team behind me in Tiburon, and I know wholeheartedly that none of this would happen without their support, and their trust, and building me up and working together. I think the people that you surround yourself with and how you treat them is one of the most important things because it's so common, especially for young people coming out of college, they don't really understand exactly how they should be treated. They don't know what's right and wrong. And as a business owner, I feel like I want them to know how they're supposed to be treated and raise that bar high. Because again, I wouldn't be able to do any of this without them is kind of how I feel. It's not even about money either. Because when Saskia and I started our business, we started with, we bootstrapped this whole way. We have no investors, we have no, we started with our savings and it made us make really hard decisions getting started. We didn't have any employees when we got started, but it made us really dive into, just even getting labels printed, I had to really research. So we have 12 different products, six different sizes, how are we not going to blow our whole budget?
Justine Reichman: Sounds scrappy. It's all about being scrappy, and thoughtful, and figuring out, making the right choices and taking a little bit of a leap of faith.
“I know that if I'm willing to work for it, I can keep working.” -Petra Bergstein
Petra Bergstein: Oh, yeah, huge, huge leap of faith. And the nice thing is I feel fortunate enough to where I felt like, if this doesn't work out, I'll go work for someone else, or I'll go get another job, or there are so many great jobs and opportunities out there. Of course, the dream is to work for myself, to have my own business. But I know that if I'm willing to work for it, I can keep working. If I lose my business, it's obviously devastating and would be terrible. But I will just keep working. I will just get a job wherever I can get a job and know that I will do what I have to do to survive.
Justine Reichman: And I think that's part of the entrepreneurial spirit, though. Entrepreneurs feel like they will do whatever they need to do to survive, and that's a leadership skill. That's an entrepreneurial skill. I don't think that everyone has that drive in them. And that's okay. Not everybody needs to have that drive. But that really is a drive I see within entrepreneurs, because you can't be an entrepreneur if you're not willing to put it all on the line, you're not willing to do it yourself, you're not willing to fix it, make it happen and figure it out. And surround yourself with the people that can help you do it, and roll up your sleeves and just work really hard. If your team doesn't see you working really hard, it's not going to motivate them to work really hard.
“You can't be an entrepreneur if you're not willing to put it all on the line.” -Justine Reichman
Petra Bergstein: I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Justine Reichman: So what's new, and what's next for your Caviar Co?
Petra Bergstein: We're just so excited that events are picking back up and we're getting involved, like in November, we got to do Paris Hilton's wedding, which was so exciting. So we have a lot of really great events and kinds of parties lined up for this year. Like I mentioned, I'm just having a baby next week, and we're getting through that. He'll probably be in the office for the first year or so and be passed around this office. But we definitely always are looking for what the next steps are and what the next growth period is. But at least for right now, we're going to work on perfecting our events, new event activations and spreading our wings in that way, which is really exciting. Again, coming out of COVID, it feels like we really are coming out and seeing more people. And we love events because it's how we get to talk to people, right? This is how we get to show people the two different variations of caviar. And usually when we do events, we do these heavier bars where we have two to three different types of caviar sizes.
“If your team doesn't see you working really hard, it's not going to motivate them to work really hard.” -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: I gotta tell you, I really need a caviar bar right now. I mean, it's wetting my appetite. I need a whole say I'm playing with like a little rose or champagne.
Petra Bergstein: You can do champagne flight with it.
Justine Reichman: A little bit of tea this whole time. I really like somebody's gonna end up at my door. In this whole conversation, somebody could have gotten from Tiburon to Larkspur during this call. Not planned properly. I'm just kidding with you. Next time, we're gonna have to do that together.
Petra Bergstein: I would love that, that would be really fun.
Justine Reichman: I'm so glad that we got to chat, I'm so glad that I got to learn a little bit about your story. I'd love to meet your sister and continue to follow along with what you guys do, and maybe even participate in some of these activities because I'd love to learn more about all these different kinds of caviar and be more knowledgeable myself. I've tried some, but I feel like there's a lot to learn. And I think it's so inspirational how you got to caviar through unconventional channels, let's just say, but then made it a passion of your own, partner with your sister who had the CPA background. And then together, you guys use your respective skills to build this business. And now, you have your two retail locations, right? And you're educating people on Caviar, you're bringing people together, and you're letting people know how to make choices about this and make it more accessible. So I think that's just lovely. And congratulations on building your business and having your baby.
Petra Bergstein: Thank you. We don't have any dull moments over here right now.
Justine Reichman: So we'll have to connect soon, but thank you so much for joining me.
Petra Bergstein: Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Justine Reichman: And before we go, for those folks that want to learn more about caviar, how might they find out about Caviar Co, and how might they order your product or find you?
Petra Bergstein: Yeah. We ship all around the country. So our website is just thecaviarco.com. And also our Instagram can be pretty educational from time to time where we really do some good facts and try to spread some information. So if you just follow us on Instagram, @thecaviarco, and then that's how you also learn about upcoming events, and parties, and dinners, special occasions, anything.
Justine Reichman: All right. I kept waiting for my invite.
Petra Bergstein: Perfect. We'll keep July 18 open.
Justine Reichman: Okay. Well, you know what? We'll do something. Send us some information. Maybe what's new and next in caviar or something, special to talk about caviar with you.
Petra Bergstein: Well, that would be great. Thank you.
Justine Reichman: Alrighty, so much information. So great to share your story. Thanks again for joining us.
Petra Bergstein: Thank you. I really appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day. Happy Monday.
Justine Reichman: All right, thanks again.
