S4 Ep45: Creating Cow-less, Plant-based Ice Cream that Truly Tastes Like the Real Deal with Aylon Steinhart, Eclipse Foods
“The ingredients and quality matter a lot. We’ve created a product that from an ingredient perspective and nutritional perspective, has some real advantages.” — Aylon Steinhart
Future Food-Tech Alternative Proteins Series Part VII
in partnership with Future Food-Tech Alternative Proteins Summit, NYC June 21 - 22, 2022
The plant-based alternative space is exploding! With more and more consumers demanding healthier, sustainable options, the need for alternatives to meat and dairy has grown exponentially. This trend has led to an increase in investment in both research and development of plant-based options, as well as companies focused on developing these products.
Technology can enable plant-based alternatives to meet consumer expectations in terms of taste and texture, while also making them more environmentally sustainable and cost-effective than traditional animal products. Yet, in order for these foods to continue being considered healthy options for consumers, they need to be made with whole ingredients and without unnecessary additives like preservatives and artificial flavors. The good news is that there are many companies who are already doing just that.
Co-founded by Aylon Steinhart, Eclipse Foods, aims to create a more sustainable, ethical, and healthy food system by developing plant-based alternatives to dairy products. Moving away from using products from factory farms presented challenges, but Eclipse Foods knew that this action was a big step toward making an impact on the environment and human health.
In this episode, Justine and Aylon discuss the crisis we’ll be facing if people continue to patronize and practice industrial agriculture and the number one thing we can do to reduce our impact on climate change. They also talk about how technology has helped Eclipse Foods to develop their products and scale quickly, the factors that drive consumer purchasing decisions, and how the choice of ingredients affects the nutritional value and quality of the products being produced.
Connect with Aylon
Aylon Steinhart, Founder & CEO of Eclipse Foods, is an expert in the alternative protein industry and has spoken regularly on food innovation at conferences and schools such as Harvard, MIT, Yale, Berkeley, and Stanford. In his work at the Good Food Institute, Aylon incubated dozens of startups and advised investors and strategic partners on the alternative protein space. Aylon has co-founded two startups and worked with companies such as Kraft Heinz, Nestle, and Kellogg’s.
Episode Highlights:
01:22 A Plant-Based Dairy Platform
06:07 A Worldwide Problem with Lactose Intolerance
10:54 What Drives Purchasing Decisions
16:18 Creating a Plant-Based Dairy
21:45 The Core of a Company
23:38 Ingredients and Quality Matter
Tweets:
Technology can help with everything— from product development to distribution channels. What does this mean for the future of food? Join @_NextGenChef and Aylon Steinhart, Founder and CEO of @eclipse_foods, as they discuss how technology accelerates growth of the plant-based alternative space. #podcast #entrepreneurship #startups #startuplife #startupstories #foodtech #cleaneating #consciousfood #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #EclipseFoods #factoryfarming #altproteins #climatechange #altdairy #plantbasedalternative #ingredientsmatter #futurefoodtech
Inspirational Quotes:
01:58 “The reason we created this platform is to create a more sustainable, ethical, and healthy food system by moving the food system away from industrial animal agriculture and towards amazing plant-based products that require no sacrifice.” -Aylon Steinhart
08:03 “For the grand majority of the world, the products that exist today don't work for them.” -Aylon Steinhart
10:44 “If people could learn more about this [plant-based alternative] and it hit home with them, those things together make the impact that might create more change.” -Justine Reichman
12:59 “Taste is what's going to make the buyer choose you.” -Justine Reichman
13:41 “When you think about doing good, it's extremely important to look at the numbers. Doing good is always associated with warm and fuzzy feelings and it's less about that. It's a lot more about what can actually have the biggest impact.” -Aylon Steinhart
21:48 “The technological breakthrough is what allowed us to iterate and create new products really quickly, and it means that we can scale products really quickly.” -Aylon Steinhart
22:44 “This is not a product for vegans or vegetarians. It's a bridge to the flexitarian consumer.” -Aylon Steinhart
23:40 “The ingredients and quality matter a lot. We've created a product that from an ingredient perspective and nutritional perspective, has some real advantages.” -Aylon Steinhart
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: So good afternoon. Welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. And today with me is Aylon Steinhart, founder and CEO of Eclipse.
Welcome, Aylon.
Aylon Steinhart: Thanks for having me.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I'm so glad to reconnect with you and bring you on to Essential Ingredients. I'm so pleased to have you here.
Aylon Steinhart: Happy to be here.
Justine Reichman: So for those of you that are not familiar with Eclipse, it is a plant based dessert similar to any other kind of plant based ice cream. Or when I was a kid, we had Tofutti. But it's a much better version. And for those that are not familiar with Tofutti, you're not missing much, my mom said it to me. But Aylon, you want to describe to people what Eclipses because I'm sure you have a much better explanation about it, and I don't want to do you a disservice.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. I'm happy to say Eclipse, we are a dairy platform. Actually a plant based dairy platform.
Justine Reichman: That's a much better explanation. Thank you.
“The reason we created this platform is to create a more sustainable, ethical, and healthy food system by moving the food system away from industrial animal agriculture and towards amazing plant-based products that require no sacrifice.” -Aylon Steinhart
Aylon Steinhart: I've been doing this for a few years now, and we make plant based dairy products that have the taste, texture and functionality of conventional dairy. So to your point, Justine, yes, frozen dessert. Our ice cream is kind of our first product to market. But Eclipses is really able to create basically any dairy product, whether it be ice cream, or cheese, or yogurt, or butter, or milk. And really, the reason we were founded and the reason we created this platform in the first place is our mission, which is to create a more sustainable, ethical and healthy food system by moving the food system away from industrial animal agriculture and towards amazing plant based products that require no sacrifice.
Justine Reichman: That's a great mission. Wow, thank you for that. So did you build this because you were passionate about the mission? Or was it also tied to any other reasons around health and wellness for you.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. The reason I created Eclipse, and the reason that my co-founder also wanted to work together to create Eclipse was exactly that is the mission. We looked at kind of the food system, and maybe I'll give you our backgrounds to give you kind of a sense of how we got to the vision. But I was at the Good Food Institute before starting Eclipse, which is the leading nonprofit in the alternative protein space. I joined there to start their innovation department. So I was working, basically running an incubator for the plant based cell based in fermentation based space. So I had a really good sense of what was happening in the alternative protein industry and what kind of gaps were missing. My co-founder at the time, Thomas, Thomas Bowman was the Director of Product Development of JUST of Hampton Creek. So he created the JUST mayos, cookies, and oversaw the team that created the JUST egg. And then before that, he was actually a chef. So he had chef'd stars, a total of 16 Michelin stars around the globe, was twice nominated James Beard rising star chef, names that gets 30 under 30.
And so he had this really incredible view of what was possible what we could actually create. And we really looked at the food industry. And what we agreed upon more than anything was that factory farming or industrial animal agriculture was really a lose, lose, lose sort of thing. I mean, it was horrible for the environment. With the UN saying that industrial animal agriculture causes more climate change than all of transportation combined. And it's actually gotten even worse. The newest UN report is even more damning of industrial animal agriculture than you have the human health aspect, in which excessive consumption of these products causes basically all major health issues like heart disease, obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc, cancer. And then there was the animal suffering part, which was another big loss because no one wins in that. Not the farmers, not the not the animals, not the people who work in those settings the slaughterhouses like. So it's just industrial. Agriculture is a lose, lose, lose system. And what we said is, hey, if we can find a fix for that that really is what our life mission is and what we need to do, and that's how Eclipse was born.
Justine Reichman: Wow, that's amazing. So your whole mission in life was to do good. When you started at the Good Food Institute, I mean, you were there to innovate and you went from innovating for them to innovating, to create your own thing. So that was pretty amazing. Now, that co founder at the time, is he still your co founder?
Aylon Steinhart: Absolutely. Yeah.
Justine Reichman: Okay, awesome. So you two are the dynamic duo making this and changing the world, and working to really change the way agriculture works in the world. And to create a plant based solution that, well, I think it's my background, just so that we're all on the same page here for those listening and watching, so I apologize. But in any event, so the impact that you're having, it really does, it changes the way the farmers do things, it changes the way that you're able to deliver a product and you're able to help people and provide a solution that's better for their health and wellness so it gives people so many more options. And then people like me that can't tolerate dairy now have a solution to go to, regardless of all the other things just so that they can have another option. And as a bonus, it helps the environment and it helps our health. So if you weren't sold originally, you're definitely sold afterwards.
Aylon Steinhart: Thank you. Yeah, that's kind of one of my favorite fun facts. Maybe I'll ask you, we can make it very interactive. (inaudible) percent of the world's population is lactose intolerant.
Justine Reichman: I think a very large part.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. Do you want to guest?
Justine Reichman: Well, I read a little factoid. I don't know where this was, but I think, no, that's a little too small of a percentage of the population. It had to do with the Ashkenazi Jews, and the percentage of Ashkenazi Jews that were lactose intolerant. But that's just one tiny little itty bitty percent of the world. I mean, that's like the tiniest little percent. We've got a very large world out there, lots of people and lots of different backgrounds. But I have to believe that a lot of people, if you look at Europe, they don't. A lot of people there don't drink and eat dairy. So the culture that we live in, we tend to eat more dairy than the rest of the world.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah, so it's true. So the number is roughly 70%, seven zero.
Justine Reichman: That's huge.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. Like 90% plus of Asian population, 90% plus of the African population, and then just most adults turn out to be lactose intolerant. And so when we think about creating products for people, that's sort of the lowest hanging fruit is dairy products don't even work well for our bodies. And so if we could create a product that tastes just as good, and is priced competitively, and is available everywhere, and just works better for our bodies, it's a no brainer. And I think that's actually why Credit Suisse went out to say that alternative proteins are going to be $1.4 trillion by 2050.
Justine Reichman: Wow.
“For the grand majority of the world, the products that exist today don't work for them.” -Aylon Steinhart
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. Growing over 100x of where we are today, and for us in the dairy world, that makes so much sense because the grand majority of the world is the products that exist today. The default products don't even work for them.
Justine Reichman: That's so that's so interesting. And it really is interesting that so many other cultures don't really even eat dairy, and we do here in the US. And what you just said with all these other cultures that actually can't tolerate it, I mean, it's interesting that they can't tolerate it. We're the only ones eating it because we're the only ones that don't know that we can tolerate it. The only ones that don't care aren't paying attention.
Aylon Steinhart: I mean, first, let's say what we have to say for, it's incredibly delicious.
Justine Reichman: Like cheese. I'm not gonna say no. I do love cheese, but I don't feel good when I eat it.
Aylon Steinhart: So that's the thing is like, I think there is incredibly delicious cheese, yogurt, butter. I mean, who doesn't love butter?
Justine Reichman: I love butter. I eat things as an accoutrement to butter. So to eat the butter.
Aylon Steinhart: And that's exactly it. It's like, we eat these things, they're delicious, but they don't really work for us, and they don't work for the planet, and they don't work for animals. And it's kind of that lose, lose, lose. And so what we're doing is we're saying, let's not require any sacrifice like, let's create products that truly have the amazing taste, truly have the amazing texture, even have the amazing functionality that dairy has which is pretty magical. And if we can create that and give it to people, then it's an obvious choice of like, let's just go for the plant based version because it's better for me, and it's better for the animals, better for the planet. So why not?
“If people could learn more about this [plant-based alternative] and it hit home with them, those things together make the impact that might create more change.” -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: I think it's true. I think there's just a little education that people need a little information that needs to get to people. I mean, even what you shared with me, I did not know that 70% of the population can't tolerate, I mean, I knew that. I read about the statistics that related to me when I heard that I couldn't tolerate it and they were telling me how staggering they were. But how common it was among what was relevant to me, which, okay, fine. But when you tell me about these other numbers and how this is huge, and I think about everything else, I think if everybody else had this kind of information, if everybody else knew this, they might go looking for other alternatives as well. And then equally, when you talk about the impact it has on the environment, and if you talk about not just the impact but the tangible impact it has, how does it impact them personally, how does it impact the future of the planet, for their families, for their children, etc. And if people could learn more about this and it hit home with them, those things together, I think make the impact that might create more change.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. It's a lot of things playing together. We look at the kind of study after study about what drives people in their food purchasing decisions, and it really is, taste is number one, price is number two, availability. It has to be on a shelf or in the restaurant, and then nutrition. And really, after that comes, sustainability concerns, animal welfare concerns, things like that. So with our theory of change, if you talk about education, education is pretty expensive and it's a one by one sort of thing whereas if we can create a product that really wins on taste and really makes that the default choice, the better choice. Because it's better not just taste, or not just the sustainability, and the animal welfare, and climate change, but also the taste, and the price, and the availability. And if we can win on those factors that actually drive consumer decisions, that's really how we're thinking about it. And luckily, we've developed a technology that can help us achieve that.
“Taste is what's going to make the buyer choose you.” -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: So in my mind, though, you're the dream because you're the company that makes the informed choices, that makes the informed choices to build a better for your business, but enough to create the best taste so that your consumer will choose you. That is saying no, because the thing is that you have a lot of businesses that don't make the informed choices to build the better for your company. So my goal to create this platform, to share these stories with founders, like yourself is to share the story of why you did this, the impact you want to have so that the next person building their business is gonna say, hey, Aylon built his business. Why? So that he could change and make a difference, give people an opportunity to have a product that's going to be better for the environment and better for themselves. So when they're building their business, maybe that will inspire them. But equally, we know that taste is what's going to make the buyer choose you. And you're saying that you're not mincing words. You're not saying, listen, I'm going to try to educate my people and hope that my bad tasting ice cream is gonna, they're gonna buy it because I'm changing the planet. You're saying, listen, it's got to taste good, but I have a mission. We're trying to give people a platform to share their information so that if you're a business, you can make a more informed choice or be inspired. And if you're an end consumer, you can make a more informed choice, but equally have the information. So I appreciate the perspective you're sharing.
“When you think about doing good, it's extremely important to look at the numbers. Doing good is always associated with warm and fuzzy feelings and it's less about that. It's a lot more about what can actually have the biggest impact.” -Aylon Steinhart
Aylon Steinhart: I really appreciate the kind words, it means a lot. And the truth is, in my mind, when you think about doing good, I think it's extremely important to really look at the numbers. And really, as funny as it's gonna sound about doing good, it is always associated with a kind of warm and fuzzy feeling. And actually, I think it's less about that. It's a lot more about, let's look at what can actually have the biggest impact. And so the reason Thomas and I are working on changing the food system is, I mean, obviously, we both love food and we're both total food people. And it happens to be that moving the system away from industrial animal agriculture is one of the most impactful things if not the most impactful thing that we can be working on. Because if you look at how to reduce climate change, coming out of Oxford, that study reported that the number one thing that an individual can do to reduce their impact on climate change is to switch to a plant based diet. And in fact, the number is, you would reduce your emissions by 73% from food if you just switch to a plant based diet. And then forget that part, but don't, because that's extremely important.
But then on top of that, you also have the impact that industrial animal agriculture has on macro human health things like these global pandemics. Actually, a report came out in saying that the risk of global pandemics for a global pandemic to happen again, industrial animal agriculture is related to 3 out of the top 10 risks because we keep animals in such quarters that they develop diseases like swine flu, like avian flu, like mad cow disease. It's just right for antibiotic resistance for superbugs and for really, really bad things that we don't want happening. And so it's climate change, it's also your own health, it's also the health of animals. There's just so many boxes that this one solution checks, that's why Thomas and I decided based on the data that, hey, this is a really, really important thing to work on. And so in terms of thinking about how we inspire businesses to do good, I think we got inspired by businesses to do good with the actual impact and impact in mind of what we could achieve.
Justine Reichman: So when you first started this, you started this while you're at the Good Food Institute or after you left?
Aylon Steinhart: After I left.
Justine Reichman: After you left. So when you started this, what was the first product you started with? Because I just remember jars, I remember little clear jars. I remember little clear jars.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah, that's a total throwback. So we basically had this moment. Thomas was making like a thousand iterations of cream cheese, and he was burning the midnight oil and had changed one processing parameter and one ingredient into the mixer that he was experimenting with. And all of a sudden, we got the sound that instead of the mixer humming along, it started making this weird kind of up and down sort of sound, and Thomas lifted it in. And what he saw was, instead of just like a smooth cream cheese, there was actually some kind of water at the bottom of the mixer, and there was like these clumps on the side. He's like, this is like a courtesan way. What happened here? And so he did it again, and it happened again. He said: "Oh, my God, the product is functioning like dairy." And that was the whole point of the company is to create this base that would function like dairy. And from there, we essentially kind of had this moment of like, whoa, we can make anything. Thomas is a total creative genius, and so he started creating everything, and he made sour cream, and cream cheese, and a bunch of different types of hard cheeses, and ice cream, and milk, and yogurt, and like made everything. And so what you're talking about the little jars was our sour cream which was the first product that we ever sampled out to the public. But as you know, history shows that we didn't actually end up choosing a mat as the first product we commercialized, and now we have--
Justine Reichman: At our Christmas party.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. Now, we sell saucer, we sell big tubs of ice cream, we sell pints of ice cream, and we're going to be selling a lot of different types of dairy products down the line.
Justine Reichman: Anything that we're going to see soon? Anything new and exciting?
Aylon Steinhart: Well, I would say, probably most of the listeners haven't even tried the cookie butter pine or the dark side of the spoon pine. Those are two amazing flavors. Mango passionfruit, those are really good, and they're out in the market now. So that's where I would steer people.
Justine Reichman: If our listeners wanted to go by Eclipse, where would they find it?
Aylon Steinhart: We're in Whole Foods, in NorCal, we're in Albertsons, and Vons, and Pavilions, and in SoCal, we're in Gopuff, in various different cities, Gorillas, in New York City. And actually, by the time this is released, I believe we will have launched with a national burger chain as their first ever dairy free shake, and really like the first ever nationwide dairy free shake. Not Shake Shack.
Justine Reichman: So tell us where.
Aylon Steinhart: It's Smashburger.
Justine Reichman: Smashburger. Where would I find a Smashburger?
Aylon Steinhart: I think they're in every state in the US. They're nationwide. And what's really amazing about Smashburger is their top 10 in terms of consumer awareness for milkshakes. Well, I don't know how much you're in the demographic.
Justine Reichman: Okay, fair enough. Thank you.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah, you're welcome. But yeah, they have really good consumer awareness for their milkshakes. And for them to be introducing a plant based milkshake, they're obsessed with taste and quality. And so the fact that we're going in there and we're going to be the first ever dairy free shake, and we're going to be featured in their summer shakes. It's phenomenal. So that's one place where I would say that you can definitely get it.
Justine Reichman: I'm just thinking, as we're chatting, I'm thinking that I could see this like, when you go to the pool and you have like a little kiosk with your food and your ice cream.
Aylon Steinhart: Definitely.
Justine Reichman: Or if there was a healthy good humor truck and they're ringing their bells, and they're coming through, you can have your little Eclipse truck. Now I'm just brainstorming if you have all the fun ideas that you could do.
Aylon Steinhart: I would say, whatever operator, they should carry Eclipse. Tell them to check out eclipsefoods.com. And I mean, we're serving, we're in the LA Dodgers stadium.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Big deal.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah, things are moving really fast. It's super exciting. We're actually in Mel's diner as well.
Justine Reichman: For those folks not familiar with Mel's diner, that's a big diner in San Francisco.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. And they have right now I think we're, by the time this launches, maybe we'll be in the NorCal locations right now, it's going to be the main locations in SoCal. And then we launched in--
Justine Reichman: Building Gate Bridge.
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah. So anyways, yeah, it's great. And so we're getting the product in a lot of different places, which is fun.
Justine Reichman: So I remember when I first met you a couple years ago, it was pre pandemic, I was trying those little things in the glass containers. And now, here we are talking, you're in Whole Foods, you're at the Dodger stadiums. What was it that got you in those little things, doing the little samplings to now being in Whole Foods, in Dodger Stadium? Was there some pivotal moment? Was it just a lot of hard work? I mean, I guess a lot of hard work, obviously, went into it. But was there something that sort of took you over the line? Was there a moment or an event?
“The technological breakthrough is what allowed us to iterate and create new products really quickly, and it means that we can scale products really quickly.” -Aylon Steinhart
Aylon Steinhart: I would say that the real pivotal moment was the technological breakthrough, it's when our products started functioning like dairy. Because what that's allowed us to do is it means that we can iterate and create new products really quickly. It means that we can scale products really quickly, because we are able to run on dairy lines. And so I can go to basically any co manufacturer that produces a dairy product equivalent to what we're making, whether it's ice cream, or cheese, or yogurt, or whatever have you, we can basically run on their lines and so we don't need to spend a bunch of money and a bunch of time getting set up. We just do a few trials, make sure it all runs well, and then we're off to the races. And so we've been able to scale really quickly. And in terms of the commercial scale, I mean, I tie it back to that first breakthrough. Because in the end, the reason Whole Foods brought us in is because they understood that this is not a product for vegans or vegetarians. It's really a product that is that bridge, sort of like the Beyond Burger, the Impossible Burger. It's the bridge to the flexitarian consumer, and that's thanks to the taste. And so I would say like, we've hired amazing, amazing people, we have an incredible team, we're constantly hiring. And obviously, it's been a lot of hard work. But I think without that first innovation that's the core of the company, the product.
“This is not a product for vegans or vegetarians. It's a bridge to the flexitarian consumer.” -Aylon Steinhart
Justine Reichman: So out of curiosity, a lot of these things, there are a lot of the products that are plant based, I'm always curious what's in them and about the transparency of the ingredients. When you look at the Impossible Burger and you look at some of these other burgers, you'll see a lot of filler sometimes. And sometimes, it's great. It's transparent with only five ingredients. Talk to you a little bit about the ingredients in the Eclipse product.
“The ingredients and quality matter a lot. We've created a product that from an ingredient perspective and nutritional perspective, has some real advantages.” -Aylon Steinhart
Aylon Steinhart: Yeah, absolutely. So the ingredients and quality matter a lot to us and personally to me. And what we've done is we've created a product from an ingredient perspective and nutritional perspective, it has some real advantages. So our products don't contain any gums, gels or stabilizers, which is really common in ice cream, even more common in plant based ice cream. We really have a lot of ingredients that we say we're never going to put into our product because we just don't want to. We're non GMO, and we're made from a blend of plants that really anyone could recognize. Cassava, potato, corn, these are common super sustainable crops. And really, the whole idea is to replicate that dairy experience and also that dairy nutrition. So we have calcium in there, and some people might read the calcium and be like, what is calcium gluconate? That's calcium that's naturally occurring in dairy. It's just not listed because it's not something that is added into dairy because it's in dairy, but we added it into our product because calcium is important, both for nutrition and for how the product functions. And then on top of that, we look at our nutrition side by side with dairy and what's kind of amazing is because we're building this product from the ground up. We don't have to be confined by the kind of constraints of dairy, so we're actually virtually no cholesterol in our product, virtually no saturated fat in our product, but similar amounts of protein, and a bit lower sugar, and a bit lower calorie. So it's not meant to be the healthiest product out there, but it's supposed to be a product that you really don't have to think about. You really can say like, yeah, I'm getting what I would expect from dairy, but it's actually a little bit better.
Justine Reichman: Better for you and better for the planet.
Aylon Steinhart: That's right.
Justine Reichman: That sounds amazing, Aylon. I love what you're doing. I love your mission behind that. You're changing the future of food, you're changing the future of dairy and making it more accessible and better for the planet.
Aylon Steinhart: Thank you.
Justine Reichman: So I really want to thank you for joining us today, and we want to keep abreast of what you have going on, what's new and what's next for you so keep us up to date, and keep us posted on all the new things coming down the pipeline.
Aylon Steinhart: I will. Thanks so much for having me.
Justine Reichman: My pleasure.
