S4 Ep23: Climate-Smart Eating is the Newest Food Trend! with Eve Turow-Paul
“We’re simply not going to get to where we need to go if the sustainable food movement remains niche instead of the norm.” — Eve Turow-Paul
We often overlook food as one of the major contributors to climate change. As far as the cause of climate breakdown goes, food is right up there with coal-fired plants, cars, and deforestation. One of the effects of climate change that impacts us greatly is global warming. Global warming is caused by the increased concentration of greenhouse gases in the Earth’s atmosphere. Many experts believe that one major cause for this increase in emissions is our consumption of meat and other animal products, which require more energy to produce than plant-based foods per calorie consumed. In addition, food loss also plays a big part in many pressing issues that we face.
Food For Climate League founded by Eve Turow-Paul is an organization focused on advocating for a more sustainable food culture. It is composed of organizations, leaders, and individuals working together to change the narrative of food and climate through in-depth research, prototyping, new product testing, and strategic planning.
This week, Justine and Eve explore the connection between food and climate change, the limitations in our diet brought by our reliance on what farmers are able to produce, and how everyone can be a part of the sustainable food movement. Eve also shares great points about our emotional health and today’s food trend from her book, Hungry. Interesting topics include the Mukbang culture, which has taken over the internet, emotional eating, and how food trends are being used for social media validation.
How we respond to food and food trends is more powerful than we think. It affects not only us but our very own home- Earth. Tune in and learn how to eat the climate-smart way!
Connect with Eve:
Eve Turow-Paul is the founder and Executive Director of Food for Climate League. She is a globally-recognized thought leader on youth food culture, well-being, and sustainability. At FCL, Turow-Paul supports groundbreaking strategic narrative and behavioral design research around food and climate issues. Through her writing, consultancy (ETP Insights), and nonprofit leadership, Eve focuses on harnessing food culture as a tool for mental, physical, and environmental health. Her latest book is Hungry: Avocado Toast, Instagram Influencers, and Our Search for Connection and Meaning (BenBella, 2020), which explores the ‘why’ behind today’s biggest food and lifestyle trends.
Episode Highlights:
00:55 The Why Behind Today's Biggest Food And Lifestyle Trends
05:40 The Sustainable Food Movement@
09:33 Our Limited Diet
15:35 Make Food Sustainability a Norm
18:50 Food and Mental Health and the Mukbang Culture
23:06 Understanding Food Trends and Human Behavior
26:20 Addressing Climate Crisis Comes First
Resources
Book
Hungry: Avocado Toast, Instagram Influencers, and Our Search for Connection and Meaning
Inspirational Quotes:
02:08 “What we decide to spend our extra time and money on means we're trying to fix something in our life.” -Eve Turow-Paul
03:20 “Food does impact how we feel.” -Justine Reichman
06:12 “Mitigating food waste is actually the number one most impactful thing that we can do to tackle the climate crisis. Limiting your food waste is more impactful than buying a Tesla!.” -Eve Turow-Paul
08:23 “You need to take into account that everybody has different foods that they feel comfortable eating, that they're familiar with. It's often overlooked sometimes.” -Justine Reichman
08:50 “People are open to trying new things, discovering new flavors, new culinary opportunities. But at the end of the day, people are going to rely on kind of what is comforting and familiar to them.” -Eve Turow-Paul
09:11 “With everything going on, people are trying to look for healthy options. They're looking to better understand how to do things that are good for the environment and the world, and learn more about how to build a more regenerative and sustainable future.” -Justine Reichman
10:54 “We have an extremely limited diet because what we eat is based on what farmers can produce…. Our diets are really boring and they could be far more exciting!” -Eve Turow-Paul
13:46 “We're in this very unique moment in time when food entrepreneurs should be thinking about sustainability in an entirely new way because people are ready to take action. People are also ready to change their food habits. It's ripe for the taking!” -Eve Turow-Paul
14:07 “The smallest change can have a great impact. It doesn't have to mean giving everything up or making these big grand gestures. A small change is enough.” -Justine Reichman
15:46 “We're simply not going to get to where we need to go if the sustainable food movement remains niche instead of the norm.”-Eve Turow-Paul
26:21 “This work on mental health and food trends is not going to matter if we're not addressing the climate crisis.” -Eve Turow-Paul
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Good evening, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm Justine Reichman. Today, we have Eve Turow Paul, author and Executive Director of Food for Climate League. Welcome, Eve.
Eve Turow Paul: Thanks so much for having me.
Justine Reichman: Welcome Eve, I'm so pleased to have you here. I'm so pleased to learn more about your book and what you're working on, and to share it with our audience. So first, let's start with your book. I want to hear all about it.
Eve Turow Paul: Sure. Yeah. So last year, I published a book called Hungry, which is all about really youth food culture around the world. And I've been studying this subject for over a decade at this point, really started off with the curiosity of why are young people so obsessed with food? And the answer has a lot to do with the digital world, rising rates of depression, loneliness, anxiety and stress. And so the book is weaving all of these things together to answer the why behind today's biggest food and lifestyle trends.
Justine Reichman: Wow, that's amazing. I'd love to hear a little bit about how that's impacting the future of food, because I would imagine the answers to those questions will dictate how the future of food is changing.
“What we decide to spend our extra time and money on means we're trying to fix something in our life.” -Eve Turow-Paul
Eve Turow Paul: Yes, very much. So I wish that my work was less relevant right now. With sky high rates of loneliness, depression and anxiety, unfortunately, it's never really been more important in my mind to really be paying attention to the impacts of mental health, on the way people choose to spend their discretionary time and income because it's really an indication of how people are coping. What we decide to spend our extra time and money on means we're trying to fix something in our life. We're trying to fix some kind of gap, and it could be something really serious, it could be something that's not so serious, that's something just more frivolous and for fun. But either way, I really like looking at those decisions that we all make and assessing, well, what core human need is driving that decision? And during COVID, it's been extremely interesting to watch the trends change and how rapidly they change in response to the racial justice movement in response to COVID. In response to, again, the mental health crises that keep building. And I do think that that is and will be impacting the food marketplace for a long time to come.
“Food does impact how we feel.” -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: Oh, I couldn't agree more. What do you think some of the foods that you're seeing are playing the biggest impact right now? Specifically with, I mean, given COVID, loneliness, depression, what are people choosing to buy? And then I'm curious, because I think some of those foods may even further impact people's loneliness and depression. I don't know if that's part of your analysis or research, but I really, truly believe food does impact how we feel, right?
Eve Turow Paul: Yeah.
Justine Reichman: I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that.
Eve Turow Paul: There are a number of really interesting trends coming out of the last couple years. So at first, what you saw was people hoarding and eating comfort foods. There's still a lot of people who are eating comfort foods, but there's also been a lot of new trends that I actually find to be really heartening in a number of ways. More people are learning how to cook, more people are learning how to garden. There was a run on baby chicks at the beginning of the pandemic, but I don't think was about securing a food source. I think it was just about wanting, wanting to give to a living thing, create a sense of meaning and purpose in our lives. But the other side of my world is spent working on food and climate issues. And on that side of things, there's a lot of really optimistic outlook. People started to get to know farmers in their area, people started to become more aware of the waste that they were creating at home. And then you also have the racial justice movement that started to become connected to the food sovereignty movement and food justice movement because rates of COVID are higher amongst people of color in the United States. And that is, if you read the newspapers, they blame it on comorbidities. Well, what are those comorbidities? It's higher rates of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, that's all related to food access. All of these things are connected.
And so there's actually a lot of momentum towards healthier, more sustainable ways of eating right now. There are trends that aren't so great for us. I think we're spending just more and more time online, that's not good for our mental health. There's certain forms of it. If you're going to FaceTime your friends, go for it. But taking a picture of what you're eating or doing and posting it to just general social media, generally speaking, negatively impacts your mental health, it doesn't improve it because we're all seeking that kind of social validation that we're just not getting in real life. So it's multifaceted, and we all are all coping in the ways that make sense for us.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. So what are some of the trends that you're seeing going forward that you think will positively impact the environment?
“Mitigating food waste is actually the number one most impactful thing that we can do to tackle the climate crisis. Limiting your food waste is more impactful than buying a Tesla!.” -Eve Turow-Paul
Eve Turow Paul: Oh, well, there's a number of them actually. So I put food waste as the number one. I'm excited to see that even as we come towards the new year, people, I'm seeing lists of how to mitigate your food waste in 2022. Online lifestyle magazines, that was not going to be a headline last year or the year prior. And I do think it's because people are watching their budgets. They don't want to be throwing away money, which is what you do when you throw away food. Maybe more and more people are realizing that mitigating food waste is actually the number one most impactful thing that we can do to tackle the climate crisis. So limiting your food waste is more impactful than buying a Tesla, or skipping your plane. You're talking about accumulating over time. So maybe people are starting to realize, like, Hey, I don't have to wait for politicians and corporations to make this change, I can do it myself. And people are also just getting more creative in the kitchen. So food waste is a big part of this. Another is really getting to know where you live and eating seasonally, eating local foods, eating a greater diversity of foods is also core to the Sustainable Food Movement. And I think that there's something really unique about this moment where we've been forced to get to know our community and our place where we are. And that's also bringing up new opportunities from a culinary perspective for both people who are making CPG products, but also people in food service and restaurant service. And that kind of exploration, I think, is really exciting.
The final part I would say is, the final trend that I see that's really, really exciting moving forward is also related to biodiversity. But the connection more directly just about the diversity period where people are thinking more about who is actually making my food, who is stalking my food, where do these recipes come from. And we're seeing an increased interest in indigenous foods and foods from African American Heritage. Really just a greater diversity of heritage's. And that's going to inevitably increase the number of things that we're eating, a greater diversity of things on our plates. And ultimately, that is going to be a boon for sustainability.
“You need to take into account that everybody has different foods that they feel comfortable eating, that they're familiar with. It's often overlooked sometimes.” -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: I couldn't agree more. And I love the fact that you integrate also the ethnicity part we recently had on, well, not recently, in the last year had on somebody that was talking about building out individual cookbooks for people based on their allergies and their ethnicity. Because what people don't take into account is that people have grown up with different foods that they're familiar with and that they are. So you need to take into account that everybody has different foods that they feel comfortable eating, that they're familiar with. And so that just ties in with that. And I think it's often overlooked sometimes.
Eve Turow Paul: Yeah. I also think that there's something about comfort foods. And then there's also something really exciting about living in a time when at least for a certain portion of the population. I would say a majority of the population in the United States, people are open to trying new things. They're open to discovering new flavors, new textures, new culinary opportunities. At the end of the day, though, people are going to rely on kind of what is comforting and familiar to them.
“People are open to trying new things, discovering new flavors, new culinary opportunities. But at the end of the day, people are going to rely on kind of what is comforting and familiar to them.” -Eve Turow-Paul
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I also think so in this time, and I don't know what you're seeing, people are looking to, with COVID and with everything going on, people are trying to look for healthy options, and they're looking to better understand how to do things that are good for the environment and the world, learn more about how to build a more regenerative and sustainable future. And so I'd love to hear some of the things that you might recommend to some of the people that are listening to our podcast or watching it.
Eve Turow Paul: Yeah. So I finished writing my book and published it last year. And really, since that period of time, all of my energy has been thrown into this nonprofit Food for Climate League. And at Food for Climate League, what we're working on is rewriting the narrative around food and climate issues. And essentially, the way that most of us talk about food and sustainability, it's very niche. It's often targeting educated white, wealthy, western audiences. It's often confusing. There's a lot of terms like biodiversity, like regenerative--
“With everything going on, people are trying to look for healthy options. They're looking to better understand how to do things that are good for the environment and the world, and learn more about how to build a more regenerative and sustainable future.” -Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: Or regenerative people. I have to tell them, I say regenerative. And I'd love to hear it just before you go on, what is your definition of regenerative?
Eve Turow Paul: Oh, geez. I don't even have one--
Justine Reichman: Biodiversity for that fact.
Eve Turow Paul: Well, biodiversity, I think of more succinctly as just a greater diversity of things that we are eating.
Justine Reichman: Okay.
Eve Turow Paul: Simply put. There's like a crazy statistic from the FAO which says, okay, I get it. 75% of the world's diet is made up of 12 plants and five animals.
Justine Reichman: Wow.
Eve Turow Paul: Which is crazy when there's between 200,000, 300,000 edible plant species on the earth. So we have an extremely limited diet, because what we eat is based on what farmers can produce over, and over, and over again.
“We have an extremely limited diet because what we eat is based on what farmers can produce…. Our diets are really boring and they could be far more exciting!” -Eve Turow-Paul
Justine Reichman: Processing the statistics, you said it, and I heard it.
Eve Turow Paul: I mean, the long and short of it is like our diets are really boring, and they could be far more exciting. And that's really kind of a thing that I'm excited about. So take a few steps back. I've spent a lot of my time consulting for massive CPG companies, hospitality companies, about millennials, Gen Z years, food trends, what people want. And oftentimes, there's a disconnect with these major corporations and how they talk about food and sustainability. So I spent a good part of my career working as a consultant advisor for large CPG companies, hospitality companies talking about food trends, what Millennials and Gen Z want. And notice that there's often a disconnect in the way that these companies, and also major NGOs, government groups talk about issues related to food and climate. Oftentimes, it's presented as you need to give up something that you love in order to do something for the common good. And especially in this moment where so many of us are to be frank suffering, either physically or emotionally. There's a very small portion of the population where that message is going to resonate. Very few people are going to be like, oh, yeah, sure, I'm going to give up this food that I love that provides me comfort, because it will help future generations. And that's how the dominant food and sustainability story is being told. That's the dominant narrative.
And so over the last couple of years through food for Climate League, we have been developing and testing new food and climate narratives as just a way to reframe this topic, because there are so many exciting innovations in the sustainable food space, so many exciting culinary opportunities. If that's not the way that we're talking about it. These ways of eating can be culturally relevant to a greater diversity of people, they can be affordable, they can be like endless limited time offer opportunities for things to eat by eating with the seasons. And I think that there's just kind of endless opportunity here, especially for entrepreneurs as well. If we just figure out the way to talk about these products, in such a manner that we are not triggering people to think about the apocalypse, we are empowering people, we are showing them the ways that these ways of eating are affordable, are culturally relevant, and are meant for them. And that's kind of the aspect of this work that I'm most excited about, that gets me up in the morning. And again, I think that we're in this very unique moment in time when food entrepreneurs should be thinking about sustainability in an entirely new way because people are ready to take action. People are also ready to change their food habits. So it's ripe for the taking.
“We're in this very unique moment in time when food entrepreneurs should be thinking about sustainability in an entirely new way because people are ready to take action. People are also ready to change their food habits. It's ripe for the taking!” -Eve Turow-Paul
Justine Reichman: Yeah. One thing that I think is, the smallest change can have a great impact because we all make small changes. It doesn't have to mean giving everything up or making these big grand gestures. A small change, a little change here, a little change, there is enough. You have to do what feels comfortable, in my opinion to you. And I think that as long as you're doing what you feel comfortable with, and every day you do a little bit, it all compounds, and it all makes a difference. So I make a little change, you make a little change, and we do what we're comfortable with, and we don't feel like we're taking away from ourselves. Like you said, we don't feel like we're giving something up necessarily. We're just doing what feels good to us and what we're comfortable with. So not to be redundant. And as time goes on, we'll get more comfortable with other things and will continue to make changes, and it will continue to compound. And so if everybody does their part, we will see a much greater difference. But the problem I see is that everybody feels like it's all or nothing. People are often shamed about not doing enough. So I think for me, the biggest thing is for people not necessarily to shame each other about what they're not doing, but to empower them, to encourage them, and to really appreciate the small changes that people are making and the efforts that they're making.
“The smallest change can have a great impact. It doesn't have to mean giving everything up or making these big grand gestures. A small change is enough.” -Justine Reichman
Eve Turow Paul: I mean, 100%. And the reality is, again, the narrative now it's very exclusionary, it's very elitist. And the plain truth of the matter is we're simply not going to get to where we need to go if the Sustainable Food Movement remains niche instead of the norm. And we need to accept imperfection from one another, we also need to accept that imperfection can also get us to the end goal, and we don't all have to be vegan, right? There are so many other things that we can be doing such as mitigating food waste. You should be reducing your meat consumption, but you know what? You should be doing that to save money and for your health anyway.
There's all these other things, and we also can, if it's framed in the right way, if we have the right products available, if foods are more accessible, if different foods are more accessible, then that's going to naturally happen anyway. And if we also have new products, new food experiences that are exciting to people that help people feel more in control, or safe, or over their own health over their income, if these are foods that help people feel like they're a part of a community that they belong, but it's a part of their identity, then we can guide global food culture in a more sustainable direction by saying, hey, these are the most exciting things to be eating and doing right now, and they just happen to be climate smart. Because if we continue to just rely on this message of doing this thing because it's good for the climate, we're not going to be successful as an industry in really impacting climate, health and human health the way that we can. And I really just don't think there's ever been a more important time to be in the food industry. And people look to food for solace, emotional solace, for physical health and well being. And right now, those two elements have never been more critically important for humanity. So I think if we just aren't attacking this in the right way, there's also to be frank money to be made by doing it well.
“We're simply not going to get to where we need to go if the sustainable food movement remains niche instead of the norm.”-Eve Turow-Paul
Justine Reichman: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Is there a resource on your climate change website that our entrepreneurs, or researchers, or anyone listening or watching that might be able to tap into if they want to learn more about this?
Eve Turow Paul: For sure. You can go to foodforclimateleague.org. We work with individuals, companies, governments, NGOs, major corporations on food and climate communications and branding. And then if you're interested as well in kind of the connection between food culture, mental health and climate, you're welcome to check out my book, Hungry, which is available wherever books and audio books are sold.
Justine Reichman: And maybe you'll give us a link that we could throw in on our show notes and in the newsletter coming--
Eve Turow Paul: I'd be happy to.
Justine Reichman: I mean, the one thing that we didn't talk about completely that I would love to circle back on is just the connection between food and emotional health. And if you've seen any specific trends on specific foods that have really brought out any depression or negative effects.
Eve Turow Paul: I mean, if you dig into the data, specifically with young women and Instagram, there are a number of food trends that negatively impact people's mental health. And I dig into this pretty extensively in my book. I actually went back to my former high school and shadowed students for a week and interviewed them. It was just really eye opening, and I talked to a number of researchers about this subject. People use Instagram as a way to brag, as a way to put forward an identity that isn't real in search for social approval, there are a lot of eating disorders that fester on Instagram in particular. Really mean things that people post about one another on those social media sites. I think that's really the most dangerous side of all of this. I do have to say that there was like a positive counterculture that developed when COVID started, which is when people were taking pictures of their food, not to brag, but to offer tips to people or say, hey guys, I messed this up, how do I do it right? It was more of like a collective movement and it felt like, alright, we're all making banana bread together guys, or we're all figuring out what do I do with, if you look at Google trends from the beginning of the pandemic, that was one of the most searched questions was like, what can I make with, again, about mitigating food waste, but also looking to others as comrades in this moment, and we were all in it together, kind of helping one another along. So it's how you use social media that makes a big difference.
And for a lot of young women in particular, social media is not a place where you go asking for advice. Social media is a place where you go to present a facade and earn the likes that will give you a rapid dopamine hit and make you feel good for a moment. The other trend that I dig in my book is mukbang, which is a very big trend in Korea and increasingly in China, increasingly in the United States, which is where people watch other people eat live.
Justine Reichman: That sounds weird.
Eve Turow Paul: It does sound weird.
Justine Reichman: It's weird to watch somebody eat.
Eve Turow Paul: Yeah. So this was something that I really wanted to understand better. So I actually went to Korea and shadowed a mukbang broadcast jockey for her--
Justine Reichman: Do you have a video of this?
Eve Turow Paul: I do. I personally do have. Yeah, well, but there's tons of YouTube videos on this.
Justine Reichman: Maybe you could share it with us and we can throw it in the video here when we put it up on YouTube.
Eve Turow Paul: Yes, there's many, many versions of mukbnag. But mukbang originated as a way to mitigate loneliness. In Korea, there's a record number of people who are living alone.
Justine Reichman: So that you're not eating by yourself. Let me watch you eat. I'm just gonna sit with you, not watch you eat necessarily, but sit with you.
Eve Turow Paul: Exactly. Some people, there's like an ASMR thing about watching the other person eat a lot of food, they place the microphones right by their mouths or right by the food.
Justine Reichman: So they are chewing.
Eve Turow Paul: Yeah. Very off putting to some people, and really, really enticing to some others. But the more that I really dug into the academic literature on this and also spent time in Korea, the more I realized that it really mostly is a way for people to feel connected in a moment of isolation. And trends like that have been percolating over the last couple years. With Cook With Me videos and people all sitting down to have like virtual happy hours--
Justine Reichman: But somehow, if I was to say, I'm going to go, I'll sit down with you while you eat versus watching me eat, it just sounds different.
Eve Turow Paul: Yes, and there's a cultural difference there.
Justine Reichman: They're totally like, I'm happy to go sit down, have a glass of wine while you eat because we're gonna keep each other company. But I said to you, come watch me eat.
Eve Turow Paul: What was interested in it, though, and this is what fascinates me about human behavior, again, trends show up in different ways. Totally on what culture you're in. But the underlying emotion that is driving forward, that behavior is a shared emotion of loneliness. And in Korea, it's also attached to shame because you're not supposed to eat alone in Korea. You wouldn't actually call a friend to say like, let's eat together because you wouldn't even want to tell the friend that you're eating alone.
Justine Reichman: Oh, completely understood now, okay. And you don't want it to be embarrassing, and you would never want your friend to feel like they have to ask you either. You don't want to put them in the spot where they have to ask you that because they feel shame around that, so you just want to be polite.
Eve Turow Paul: Like pre COVID, there was a movement also for restaurants where you ate, you eat in your own cubicle. Some of them, the waiter doesn't even see your face. They pass you the food from underneath a sheet to protect your privacy because it's shameful to be eating alone.
Justine Reichman: Wow, it's so interesting.
Eve Turow Paul: There's tons of this stuff. I am just endlessly fascinated by it.
Justine Reichman: What spurred this interest for you?
Eve Turow Paul: The interest started when I moved to New York City in 2010. Okay, I was in graduate school for writing, I was broke and I realized that what little discretionary time and income I had, I was spending on food. So I was choosing to go to an underground dinner instead of paying for taxi cabs, or going to the movies, or buying new clothes. And everyone else around me was doing the same thing.
Justine Reichman: I was gonna say, I did the same thing.
Eve Turow Paul: And the two years before that, I did not care about food at all. I mean, I ate like cinnamon toast crunch in college for dinner, and that was perfectly fine for me. And then suddenly, I was making like three course brunches for family and friends and choosing to spend the little time and money I had on these kinds of food experiences. And I started to look at, why? The first question was, well, is this every generation, then I started to realize that it is far more common with young people in the United States. And then once I really started to do the interviews and dig into the academic literature that's related to this topic, that's when I began to understand that our emotional health was driving forward some of these dominant food trends that were reshaping food culture internationally. And the more that I dug into it, the more I became absolutely fascinated by it. And Hungry specifically is talking about the impact of the digital age on mental well being, because that has been prior to COVID. Really screentime, that's been the dominant impact on our mental well being. Now, it's a combination of screen time and pandemic, isolation, fear and grief. But anyhow, so that took me on that road. I ended up traveling around the world, writing two books on this subject.
And then in 2019, I really started to feel like this work on mental health and food trends is not going to matter if we're not addressing the climate crisis. And I was seeing more and more literature about the ways that food and agriculture are the key drivers of and can be a key solution to the climate crisis. I just didn't understand why my clients weren't able to sell their sustainable products, why the Sustainable Food Campaigns I was seeing were going nowhere. And I raised some money from Google. I got together with several other colleagues and we said: "Listen, we need to do some research here on what is the current food and climate story? What is the public hearing? And what about this is not working, and why?" And ended up talking to a number of climate psychologists, climate communications experts. And the problems we uncovered were so big that we said, we need to be a nonprofit. We filed to be a 501c3. And this is what I spend my life doing now is really helping companies, organizations, governments shift the narrative because there's, again, there's so much business opportunity here. And at the same time, if we do it right, we're going to help people feel more in control, more connected to a community, more purposeful. It's just don't win all around, and it'll be better for our physical health.
“This work on mental health and food trends is not going to matter if we're not addressing the climate crisis.” -Eve Turow-Paul
Justine Reichman: I couldn't agree more. It's like a win for everyone. Win, win, win.
Eve Turow Paul: Exactly.
Justine Reichman: It's a win, win, win. Well, Eve, thank you so much for joining me. I can't wait to get a copy of your book. I can't wait to read that. And we'll share the link in the show notes for everyone that's watching or listening, and a link to your website. So for those entrepreneurs and innovators out there looking to craft a narrative that better communicates what you're doing, reach out to Eve. What's the best way to connect with you Eve?
Eve Turow Paul: Either through my own website, which is eveturowpaul.com. Turow is T-U-R-O-W. Or through foodforclimateleague.org. You can do the contact me page. So foodforclimateleague.org.
Justine Reichman: We'll make sure to throw that in the show notes for those of you that want to grab it from the website. So Eve, thanks again for joining me. Thank you to our guests for watching or listening. We're here every Tuesday, and we'll see you again next week.
