S7 Ep12: Back to the Roots: The Principles of Regenerative Agriculture with Philippe Birker
“Most of the regenerative farms are still surrounded by conventional farms. Nevertheless, the food from the regenerative farm will be more nutritious and more healthy than the food from the conventional farms just 20 meters over the fence.” —Philippe Birker
This week, we are joined by Philippe Birker. Philippe’s passion for regenerative agriculture's potential to address climate change and related challenges led him to co-found Climate Farmers, where he and his team assist farmers in adopting more sustainable methods.
Hit play and join this insightful conversation as Justine and Philippe provide an understanding of solutions to climate change through sustainable food production. They also discuss the principles and benefits of regenerative agriculture, how regenerative practices help build healthy soil and increase biodiversity and drought resilience, the challenges of transitioning to regenerative agriculture, why regenerative farmers are the unsung heroes of the food system, and why a systemic change is necessary.
Connect with Philippe:
Philippe Birker is the Co-Founder of Climate Farmers, an organization working to transition Europe's food system to regenerative agriculture. Based in Portugal, Philippe bought an abandoned village in 2017 and has been rebuilding it while learning about regenerative farming practices. Prior to founding Climate Farmers, he worked for several tech startups. Through visiting regenerative farms across Europe, Philippe became passionate about the ability of regenerative agriculture to tackle climate change and other issues, leading him to support farmers transitioning to more sustainable methods.
Episode Highlights:
03:00 Regenerative Agriculture and Its Benefits
07:05 The Lack of Support from the Current Agricultural System
11:14 A Need for Systemic Change
18:31 Regenerative Agriculture and Its Impact on Health and Climate Change
22:27 Regenerative Agriculture vs Conventional Farms
Tweets:
#RegenAg is the key to healthy people AND a healthy planet. Join @jreichman and Climate Farmers Co-Founder, Philippe Birker as they share the principles behind this solution-focused approach to farming. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #Season7 #RegenerativeAgriculture #ClimateChange #SustainableFarming #HealthySoil #CarbonSequestration #NutritiousFood #FoodSystems #AgTech #SocialEntrepreneurship
Inspirational Quotes:
03:03 “With regenerative agriculture, we basically use the potential of nature to regenerate itself. And instead of working against nature, you work with nature.” —Philippe Birker
08:59 “If we don't focus on climate change, then what are we doing with our lives right now?” —Philippe Birker
09:35 “All of these farmers were doing what they're doing because they really believed in it.” —Philippe Birker
13:38 “We are still living in a capitalist system where people don't really care about impact. Most organizations are still run by the drive to increase financial return on investment. All these farmers just want to do the right thing and regenerate the land.” —Philippe Birker
21:28 “All these diets look at what kind of food you're eating, but you should actually be looking at, how is the food grown that your eating” —Philippe Birker
22:50 “Most of the regenerative farms are still surrounded by conventional farms. Nevertheless, the food from the regenerative farm will be more nutritious and more healthy than the food from the conventional farms just 20 meters over the fence.” —Philippe Birker
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. With me today is Philippe Birker, Co-Founder of Climate Farmers.
Welcome Philippe.
Philippe Birker: Good to be talking to you.
Justine Reichman: Likewise, likewise. I've heard a lot about you when we coordinated this, we're very excited to learn more about you and what you're doing. And so with that in mind, given we don't know what our guests know and don't know, would you mind just telling us a little bit about Climate Farmers?
Philippe Birker: I guess we can start where I'm sitting right now, for those that are watching the video.
Justine Reichman: We also have people listening, so create a visual for them as well.
Philippe Birker: Where I am right now is in the middle of the Portuguese mountains, in a formerly abandoned village which I bought with a few friends in 2017. So Portugal is one of the most deserted countries in Western Europe. We have a lot of people living on the coasts, but almost no people living in the countryside. And so the Portuguese government passed a law that you can buy broken down houses, and you can fix it up yourself without planning permission, which if you're German is quite crazy. Because in Germany, we really like our regulations and our laws. And for me, this was a great opportunity because I grew up in the countryside, lived for 10 years, and absolutely love the cities for the people mostly, but was interested in bringing the people back to the countryside. So we've been rebuilding this village basically since then. And we also have a few hectares of land here. And that's what got me on to the topic of regenerative agriculture. Now, I don't know how trained or knowledgeable your audience is in that regard.
Justine Reichman: I always like to break it down. So far, we have had many conversations. And what I've learned is everybody's got a different definition for all these different terms. So as it relates to you, I'd love to hear from you. What is regenerative agriculture?
“With regenerative agriculture, we basically use the potential of nature to regenerate itself. And instead of working against nature, you work with nature.” —Philippe Birker
Philippe Birker: Sure. So what I found when I started looking into agriculture, I was quite amazed that the way how we're growing our food is essentially one of the core issues that we're having right now, especially in regards to climate change. So agriculture is responsible for 24% of our greenhouse gas emissions. And at the same time, the current agricultural system does not support the livelihood of farmers, it does not make it attractive for farmers. This is all in the European context, I have to say. And it leads to the fact that we're producing food, which is not very nutritious with an average age of farmers in the European Union, which is 56 years that we have a lot of farms in the European Union dying out at the moment because the children don't want to take over the farms with their parents, and also that were massively causing climate change. Now, the amazing thing is that with regenerative agriculture, we basically use the potential of nature to regenerate itself. And instead of working against nature, as we would be by using pesticides, using the practice of plowing or many of the other industrial farming techniques, in regenerative agriculture you work with nature. And one of those things is, for example, if you enable plants to grow, and if you focus on building up soil health, which is essentially what you do in RegenAG, then what you do is you cultivate (inaudible) of microorganisms, which are living below soil level. If you feed these microorganisms among others with carbon, most of probably one of the main causes of climate change.
And the beauty is that plants, any plant that you see wherever you are right now, I hope you have at least one plant in your view. And whatever plant that is right now doing photosynthesis, which essentially means it's taken carbon out of the atmosphere through its leaves, it stores it in the plant, and then through its roots brings a deep into the soil. And then the soil, the plant is basically trading that carbon through the help of a micro riser, which is essentially a fungi, are different kinds of fungi which are kind of like the Dutchman of the soil. They're the tradesmen, and they're trading that carbon against other nutrients and against sugar, for example, which the plant needs to grow. So the more the plant grows, the more carbon it brings down. And if we keep on basically enhancing that bizarre that's going on below the soil level and enhancing that gross, then this is the best way that we have actually for getting carbon out of the atmosphere. And this is just one of the many benefits also ranging to increase in biodiversity for example, and also to an increase in soil water storage capacity because healthy soil has the capacity of soaking up water when it rains and releasing it in times of drought. And drought is an issue that we have here in Europe massively rising. For example, in southern Europe right now. Again, due to climate change. So essentially, regenerative agriculture is a new way of farming, which is not really a new way of farming because it's basically using indigenous farming practices. But those of us working in regenerative agriculture are trying to transition our food system towards this way of farming, which is more enlightened in harmony with the planet.
Justine Reichman: I think that was very in depth, for those that were not familiar with regenerative agriculture certainly have a point of view now that I think breaks it down, it's easier and more digestible. So I really appreciate you sharing that. And I'm curious, so you bought this farm in 2017 with some friends. Is that right?
Philippe Birker: I always say I'm an aspiring farmer. So we have a few hectares of land, and we're growing some vegetables, replanting 1,000 fruit and nut trees in two weeks. But I'm not an active farmer right now because I was looking into that. And then I found the potential of RegenAG. And then that essentially, to me, founding my organization which now kept me busy over the last four years.
Justine Reichman: Okay. So before you kicked off this organization, what were you doing?
Philippe Birker: I have been working for a variety of different tech startups in Amsterdam, and in Berlin, maybe Fairphone, which was like the first sustainable smartphone, modular smartphone essentially. I also had a drink business for a while making a drink from the waste product of coffee production, also the nightclub in Amsterdam for three years. So I have been a bit of a serial, starting my own projects.
Justine Reichman: I understand. So you left your last organization or you sold it? However, that ended up when you decided to move out to the countryside in Portugal because you had this idea to build up the community, bring the people back and start to build this out. What inspired you at that time? Was it the fact that Portugal had said, we have this land and you can do this without any boundaries, I guess, for the infrastructure that they had with the filings of papers and this and that? What really inspired you to go from what you're doing to now, building this new organization, supporting regenerative agriculture and working towards being a farmer?
“If we don't focus on climate change, then what are we doing with our lives right now?” —Philippe Birker
Philippe Birker: I think it's important to separate these two things here. So the project in Portugal is basically my home. So it's not a company. It's basically just where we're living. And why we bought the land here, I was still spending a majority of my time in Berlin and I was still working for a company. So I had my income. I could work remotely before COVID already. So I spent some of my time here, and I spent some of my time in Berlin. And because we had the land that I started looking first at the principles of permaculture, and then through that, I also found regenerative agriculture as a topic. And I found papers from Val Huntington University, which is one of the leading agricultural universities in the Netherlands from the 80's and 90's already speaking about this carbon sequestration potential of regenerative agriculture. And I was amazed at that point because it seemed to me that RegenAG is the solution to many of the issues that we're facing. But at that point, no one was speaking about this in Europe. This was not a thing at all. I was just amazed how it's possible that we have the solution to so many issues, and it's not happening. And so I was wondering why that is the case. And then I basically went on a one year pilgrimage in 2019, basically, just driven by curiosity. Visited all of the majority of farmers that I could find in Western Europe. Now, it wasn't that many. I found 60 farmers and a total out of 10.5 million farmers that we have in the European Union for context. And I basically went from farm to farm and estate, what's the farmer's work? Try to understand how they got into RegenAG? Why do they think it is not scaling? And what could I do to support them? And based on these conversations and then a meeting that I had with my Co-Founder, we're now through the Social Entrepreneurship Network Summit 2019 in Berlin, which was the hottest day in Berlin. It was 39 degrees. I don't know what that's in Fahrenheit for you in the 90s. I think, like in the 90s. And definitely, we were both saying, hey, if we don't focus on climate change, then what are we doing with our lives right now? And he also already found regenerative agriculture, as his calling. And we decided to combine forces and start (inaudible) farmers, and to put ourselves in the service of supporting farmers and the transition to regenerative agriculture.
Justine Reichman: Thanks for sharing that. It piqued my interest to know when you have these conversations and you were traveling around talking to these farmers. What were some, maybe two or one stories that piqued your interest and really inspired you to go on this pilgrimage?
“All of these farmers were doing what they're doing because they really believed in it.” —Philippe Birker
Philippe Birker: I think the very beautiful thing was that all of these farmers were doing what they're doing because they really believed in it and for intrinsic reasons. There's no actual system existing around these farmers, which is supporting them and what we're doing. The way our agricultural system right now is set up is really messed up. So essentially, farmers only get rewarded for yield. So the only thing that farmers get paid for is by how much you produce. Nobody cares what the ecosystem services are and what you're doing to yourself. So if you're putting a lot of glyphosate or Roundup as it's called in America, on your soil and you're destroying the soil life. Or you're essentially nurturing the soil life, and you're helping these plants to sequester carbon, you get the same amount of money. So there's no incentive for farmers to actually go on the regenerative paths because there's also no payment for the ecosystem services that they're providing for all of us. If farmers are building biodiversity, if farmers are sequestering carbon in the soil, if farmers are increasing the soil water storage capacity, these are services which they're providing for all of us in which all of us have benefited from, but nobody is helping them at that point. Now, there's a lot of organisations out there. But at that point, there was nobody helping them and figuring out how they can do this in their specific context. And there was no one willing to pay them for this. And that's what we set out was Klamath Farmers Western Academy, which is a nonprofit, which essentially connected these farmers with each other. And with a for profit, which is measuring these ecosystem services, and I will send you to get paid for it.
Justine Reichman: Wow, it really is amazing. And so now, in the short term, what are you hoping to achieve in the next year or two?
Philippe Birker: I mean, essentially everything that we're doing is working on the systemic level. So we're essentially working with a variety of different actors in the agri food system in order to collectively transition now the food system in Europe, from one focused on industrial agriculture, to one focused on regenerative agriculture. So this means on the one hand, talking to banks in order to give farmers loans where banks have an interest in giving loans to initiatives, which are sustainable so that they can reach self sustainability targets. And we can measure the regeneration that's taking place on the farm through our own MRV system. So we can report back to the banks what's going on at the farm so they can use this talking to insurance companies, which are right now paying massive amounts of money for flooding, which is happening in Central Europe. My hometown in Western Germany, for example, was part of a massive flooding that happened two years ago. We had 31 billion euros in damages, these damages would have been prevented if we would have healthy soils. So we're trying to get insurance companies to insure farmers that are in the tradition of regenerative agriculture against crop loss. Because when you're trying to transition, there are risks involved with it. And those risks are currently only carried by the farmers. Because if you suddenly stopped using pesticides, and if you suddenly stopped using fertilizers, etcetera, then it's a little bit like an alcoholic that suddenly goes cold turkey. And there are some issues in this transition period, which we need to support farmers to go through.
We're also working with corporations, which luckily, that massive food corporations as well like Nestle, for example, have realized that the way they're sourcing the food right now, they will not be able to source in the future. And if they can't source their food they produce, then they cannot sell the product. And they cannot increase the shareholder value which they are responsible for. So even though they're not doing this for the good of their heart, they also have realized that they have to change something. So they are the first people who are now finally willing to support farmers financially in the transition. So we're designing training programs for farmers. We mentioned them as consultants, and we're reporting back to the food corporations what's happening on the farms and the regeneration that's taking place.
Justine Reichman: When you're approaching the insurance companies and those larger organisations, what are the greatest obstacles for you when you're trying to convey the message, the impact and the necessity of what you're trying to do so that they can get on board to support the farmers?
“We are still living in a capitalist system where people don't really care about impact. Most organizations are still run by the drive to increase financial return on investment. All these farmers just want to do the right thing and regenerate the land.” —Philippe Birker
Philippe Birker: I think the issue is that we are still living in a capitalist system where people don't really care about impact. Most organisations are still run by drive to increase financial return on investment. So basically, we constantly have to make a business case in order to achieve the impact that you want to achieve. All these farmers just want to do the right thing and regenerate the land. But for example, one challenge that we're having is, I can't find anyone that's willing to pay farmers for increasing biodiversity. We'd like to talk about it. But actually, nobody really cares about biodiversity out there. At least no one cares enough to be willing to pay for it. In the same thing, I have to make a business case to insurance companies that they save money because their risk of having to pay for flooding risks is enough to insure farmers for the tradition. Because otherwise, why would they do it? They're driven by financial interests and not driven by the good of their heart to actually secure people. And the same thing is for foot corporations. So the best thing that we have found so far is actually carbon. And this is why one of the things that we're doing is also selling carbon credits which we're generating for farmers, because companies by now are calculating their own carbon emissions, and then they compensate for them. And then we enable them to compensate on the local level by matching them with a local farmer. Now, this is not something that I like.
I don't like the carbon market. I don't like to focus on carbon which is the average of agriculture, but it is the best tool that I have right now to pay farmers. And on top of that, it's nowhere close to enough money. So farmers are sequestering between one to two tons per hectare per year, which gives us 50 to 100 euros because we're setting the carbon credits for 50 years of time, which is a very high price in the voluntary carbon market. But the transition costs are substantially higher so we're not able to actually create enough financial incentives in order for the broad mass of farmers, the millions of farmers in the union, to go on that transition. And what we do right now is we're supporting these intrinsic farmers, which are very often young farmers who didn't want to take over the farm with their parents, then went to do something else, realizing it's not making me happy. And then luckily found in the depths of the internet regenerative agriculture, and then decided because they watched Kiss The Ground, for example, which is an amazing documentary on Netflix for those people who are more interested in the topic. And then they decided, okay, I go back to my parents and tell them that I take over the farm. But only if you let me do it regeneratively. And the parents are like, I don't know what you're talking about. But hey, if you're taking over the farm, then let's go. And then they're struggling, and then we can support them. But this is an analogy of the farmers and it's nowhere near to what we need to achieve the systemic change that we need in order to be able to actually have the impact that we need, in order to not wanting to a climate crisis, which we're currently full headed towards through a food crisis, which is something that we're also slowly getting to in Europe.
Justine Reichman: When you look at this and you say, okay, well, we have a small portion, and a small portion is going to be able to help us create some change. What do you think's gonna get you over the threshold? And how many people do we need to get on board to have that impact and make that change to create a change?
Philippe Birker: So what we're doing is we're working with something that we call model farms. So we have farmers by now slowly, slowly, which are already doing regenerative agriculture for 2, 3, 4 years. So they see the outcomes of this on their farms. For example, we have a farmer in southern Portugal which started with holistic animal management, and it was integration of trees into his farm. And by now, he has green grass in southern Portugal in June, which is something that's unheard of. And so we're organizing events for conventional farmers to go to his farm in June and to see this. And then they're running around, they're looking at the watering system because I can't believe that he has green grass in southern Portugal in June. And this is the kind of moment where it clicks in the heads of farmers because farmers are not impressed by a podcast or by a PowerPoint presentation, but they are impressed by what they see actually working in the soil. And if they see it's working, they're like, okay, let me try this out as well. So this is the one approach that we're doing. And at the same time, we're doing a lot of policy work. We are working with the food corporations which have decided now, hey, we want to commit to this. We are interested in investing money in this because we are interested in the long term survival of our company. We realize that this needs to happen, which is still a few, but at least it's starting there.
And we're also working on the policy level. Because I don't know how it is in the States. But in Europe, 60 to 80% of the income of farmers is coming through the Common Agricultural Policy, which is basically the money that the European Union is given out to agriculture. And here, it's mostly given out right now based on the size of farms. So you get money per hectare. Again, no matter what you're doing, if you're poisoning it, destroying it, or regenerating it. And to get money for what you're planting there are certain bonuses in there, but not based on the actual outcomes. So we're doing a lot of lobbying work. And we're working with the Club of Rome among others to get together in order to change the next cap, which is our long term goal, which is in 2027, to include payment for farmers for ecosystem services such as increasing biodiversity.
Justine Reichman: That was my next question. As you were talking about that, what are your long term goals? So I think you just illustrated one for 2027. But I'm wondering what else you're hoping to achieve, or what goals you've set for the next 5 to 10 years?
Philippe Birker: So our goal is to get 10% of our farms until 2027 under regenerative management. Because we believe that when we have 10%, then we have enough model farms for every other farm in the European Union to be able to go and to be able to relate to a farm which is in a similar context. And from that, we're hoping to be able to achieve an avalanche effect essentially. And to make regenerative agriculture, the mainstream agriculture and the world we're wanting to live in is where people are like, you did what you plowed your soil and you put poison on it. Why did you do this? Whereas right now, we still have farmers saying, you don't use glyphosate. How do you do this?
Justine Reichman: There's a huge impact on climate change. But I also think it impacts health as well. I don't know if you have any information on that that you can share. If there's any stories that you've heard, the impact of people and how they are feeling as they change from regular general agriculture to regenerative agriculture. I just came back from Europe and I was in France, and I ate a bunch of croissants, which I don't normally eat. I'm just using this as an example. And because the flower is not bleached and doesn't have all these things, and has less gluten, and just in general is prepared a little differently, I didn't get sick the way I do when I'm in the States. That's a little different. We're talking about the way that they produce the flour, etc. But I'm curious, what your experience has been with that with regards to regenerative agriculture, and how people are sharing with you any stories around wellness?
“All these diets look at what kind of food you're eating, but you should actually be looking at, how is the food grown that your eating” —Philippe Birker
Philippe Birker: It's a super fascinating topic there. So one very interesting thing is healthy soil, healthy plants, and healthy people. And that basically sums it up in six words. So what's happening is it's very logical that a plant, when it grows, takes nutrients from the soil. If it's healthy soil, then the nutrients are in the plant. And then if you eat them, you get them. And because of the way we've been farming it, because we have consecutively been destroying the healthy soil and have been cutting the life that's down there, we have started adding this chemically from the outside. And because of this, the food that we're eating has a fraction of the nutrients that it used to have 50, 60, 70 years ago, the same oranges for example, now have one six of the nutrients that they used to have 50 years ago. So the amount of food that we're consuming is rising, and we're getting obese from it, and we're getting sick from it because we're not actually receiving nutrients from it anymore. And this is pretty messed up. And this is pretty crazy when you're looking into it. Because of all these diets and everything they're looking about, you know what kind of food you're eating, but you should actually be looking at, how is the food grown that I'm eating? And if there were pesticides involved in growing it, then you can be sure that it's not good for your health. We also have the ironic situation, which is still insane in my opinion. The company which is producing most of these pesticides is also the company which is sending us medicine. Company that is making us sick then sending us the medicine to make more money off us. And that is the buyer.
Justine Reichman: Yeah, of course. And so if you continue on this line of thinking, I'm wondering, if you think about what goes in the soil, what could potentially be making us sick, etc, how far do you think we have to go out to be able to, if one farm is putting this stuff on but the next one is more regenerative and not adding it, how far the distance do you think you have to go for that farm that's regenerative not to be affected by the other farm?
Philippe Birker: It goes relatively quickly. There are, of course, effects on every single integrated system. But you can already see that there's a lot of amazing pictures, which you already can find online by now like regenerative farms and conventional farms if you see life striving on the one side of the fence, and life being death on the other side of the fence. And for example below the soil, you wouldn't have life there. So life would just stop. So essentially, most of the regenerative farms are still surrounded by conventional farms. And obviously, this does have a negative effect on them. But nevertheless, the food from the regenerative farm will be more nutritious and more healthy than the food from the conventional farms just 20 meters over the fence.
Justine Reichman: So amazing. There's so much to learn here so that you know more people can build, think about regenerative agriculture and integrate that into their farms. So for those folks that are listening or watching today that are curious about how you might be able to be a great resource for them and direct them in the right direction, how would they get in touch with you?
Philippe Birker: I mean, generally, I would say don't come to me, go to a farmer. People should be more in touch where they get their food from. And nowadays, almost every region in Europe, and I'm assuming in America as well, we have something which is called Sample Community Supported Agriculture where you essentially get a CSAs. We essentially get food straight from a farmer so that the money doesn't end up with all the different people in the supply chain who are taking a cut, but extra with the people that are doing the work on the ground. And many of these CSA's also operating regeneratively. If you Google regenerative agriculture in your city, you will probably find some farmers where you can get your sourcing from. If you are in Europe and you are interested in getting involved in the RegenAg Movement, and in potentially collaborating with us or our farmers, then you can find Climate Farmers on our climatefarmers.org. Or you can find me on LinkedIn at Philippe Birker. I'm sure you can put some information on this.
Justine Reichman: Of course. We'll make sure to add that in the show notes so that people can tap into those resources, help create change in this movement and be part of it. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate that. And I love learning all about what you're doing. And it's really inspiring, and I hope that perhaps we can share this with our community, inspire some change there and some greater access to the information so they better understand what RegenAG is, and how to use that in their own farm?
