S9 Ep6: Taste of Learning: Bridging the Gap Between Food and Academics with Laura La Vacca
“They know they're going to get taken care of when they come to school. That's one of the most important things that we can do, and then they're ready to learn.” —Laura La Vacca
Series: Edible Schoolyards
Food and nutrition are often overlooked as the most important part of a child's day, despite their crucial role in fueling young minds and bodies. Yet, while schools play a vital part in ensuring students have access to healthy, nourishing meals, the integration of food education into the curriculum remains a challenge.
Laura La Vacca is the Food Service Director of Burlington School District in Vermont. Her primary role is to oversee the district's federally funded meal programs and spearhead initiatives to incorporate local, fresh produce into school cafeterias.
From the importance of building trust with students to the transformative power of hands-on food education, this conversation offers valuable insights into the future of school nutrition and its potential to shape the next generation's relationship with food.
Tune in as Justine and Laura discuss the importance of building trust and relationships with students to encourage them to try new, healthy foods, the transformative impact of hands-on food education, the challenges of balancing federal nutrition guidelines with student preferences and limited resources, he vital role of school nutrition programs in providing nourishing meals and a sense of community for all students, plus much more.
Connect with Laura:
Laura La Vacca is the nutritionist for the Burlington School District in Vermont, bringing over two decades of experience in school nutrition to her role. Responsible for overseeing the district's federally funded meal programs, Laura is dedicated to integrating local, fresh produce into school cafeterias and empowering students to develop a lifelong love of nutritious foods through hands-on education and community-based partnerships.
Connect with Burlington School District:
Episode Highlights:
00:49 USDA Guidelines and Requirements for Meal Planning
04:24 The Impact of Peer Influence and Hands-On Experiences
07:23 Healthy Meals for the Community
11:17 The Number of Food-Insecure Students
15:02 Integrating Food and Nutrition Into Education
22:01 Mission: Sustainable School Nutrition Programs
25:06 The Need for Continued Advocacy
Tweets:
School nutrition is more than just feeding students— it’s about empowering kids to make healthy choices. It's time to bring some flavor to the curriculum with a side of nutrition with @jreichman and @BTVSchools Food Service Director, Laura La Vacca. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #Season9 #EdibleSchoolyard #FarmToSchool #LunchAndLearn #FoodForThought #HealthySchoolMeals #SchoolGardens #Cafeteria #FoodSecurity #FoodConnections
Inspirational Quotes:
03:15 “The garden is more of an educational tool… There's a lot of produce in a school garden. It's an opportunity for kids to get to know the food and where it comes from, and to be invested in it.” —Laura La Vacca
04:46 “I would argue that food is the most important part of the day.” —Laura La Vacca
07:25 “The information and the education around [better-for-you food], and the fact that you can see people making more choices or being open to more choices, is really important.” —Justine Reichman
08:22 “It's the person standing in the kitchen that's having those personal conversations that have the impact on kids’ choices.” —Laura La Vacca
10:31 “By exploring other ways [to cook], it allows people to taste the vegetables, to know what they are, and to start to make them themselves.” —Justine Reichman
10:47 “Kids get invested when they're doing the cooking, too.” —Laura La Vacca
12:59 “It's not just about the food, it's just about the experience with the food, too.” —Laura La Vacca
15:40 “We're feeding more kids and we have fewer workers to do so. That changes our ability to do all of the things that we want to do. It limits our ability to bring in fresh local produce every day.” —Laura La Vacca
17:44 “They know they're going to get taken care of when they come to school. That's one of the most important things that we can do, and then they're ready to learn.” —Laura La Vacca
20:28 “I want school nutrition to be part of education… The school nutrition department is not integrated enough. It has real value for schools to look at it a little differently.” —Laura La Vacca
22:47 “It wouldn't be easy, but it can be done. Just because it's not easy doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at it.” —Laura La Vacca
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Good morning, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. With me today is Laura La Vacca. She is the nutritionist for the Burlington School in Burlington, Vermont.
Welcome Laura.
Laura La Vacca: Thank you.
Justine Reichman: So Laura, when I was speaking with Betty, she was talking about the three C's. My understanding is that you manage the cafeteria aspect of this for the children. I'd love to dig in a little bit deeper to understand what that means. So if we could just start with that, I think that might be great.
Laura La Vacca: So in terms of the cafeteria, basically, I am responsible for overseeing all the meal programs. The federally funded meal programs that we provide to children during the school day and some after the school day. So I provide school breakfast, national school lunch, and at risk supper. So in that role, I write menus that are compliant with the regulations, the meal pattern that the USDA provides for us, and I'm responsible for all the procurement of the food that we turn into school meals. We fully staff our kitchens, and we also have a food science education coordinator who gets into classrooms and works with kids on cooking projects, and getting involved in the gardens that we have, which is funded through my department as well. So there's a lot that we do to integrate local foods and healthy foods into the school day for kids.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. So as you're responsible for all of this, which includes a lot of meals in a day, it includes the meal planning and all of that. How do you look at the children and decide, okay, this is what's healthy for them. This is what they're going to eat. And are we going to integrate the gardens that we have? How to make sure that that becomes a really healthy, comprehensive meal that, A, they understand. And B, they're going to enjoy it and maybe even ask for it again?
“The garden is more of an educational tool… There's a lot of produce in a school garden. It's an opportunity for kids to get to know the food and where it comes from, and to be invested in it.” —Laura La Vacca
Laura La Vacca: So for starters, like I said, it's a USDA funded program. It's a federally funded program. It is pretty well dictated what we can and can serve. So when we plan a menu, we have to plan a menu with a variety of vegetables, and those vegetables have to be in different subgroups. So we have to include leafy greens, red orange vegetables and legumes. So they dictate what quantities that we have to provide. They tell us how much protein we have to provide each day, how much grains we have to provide each day. So that's a lot that is already dictated in many ways to us. And most recently, we have sodium limits. We have sugar limits. So even though this is something that's always been important to me now on a national level, the USDA is dictating that to us. So what the garden does, really, is just to talk about the garden and the edible landscape, so to speak. The garden is really more of an educational tool. There's not a whole lot of coming out of a school garden that is enough for us to feed. We have 3,500 students in our school district. We're serving about 2,500 lunches a day, and similar breakfast a day, and about a thousand suppers a day. So that's a lot of produce.
There's a lot to produce in a school garden. It's an opportunity for kids to get to know the food and where it comes from, and to be invested in it. If they grew cherry tomatoes, those cherry tomatoes might show up on the salad bar, they get excited. Hey, I grew that. I harvested that. I brought that to Miss Lea so that she could put it on the salad bar. So that's really what the school garden is. When we're talking about it with students, we're bringing in local producers too, so that we can produce enough food to provide for our kids. And different counties are different. The county where I worked last was a very agricultural county. So oftentimes you would say, hey, you know your classmates' farm grew these carrots that you have on your plate. So it's about making those connections for them.
Justine Reichman: How do children respond to that when you share the information, or whether they learn where things came from, and whether that they grew it a friend grew it, etcetera.
Laura La Vacca: I think they have a lot of pride. I think they're really proud that I contributed. We all want to contribute to our community, and so they have a lot of pride in being able to contribute to such an important part of the day. I would argue that food is the most important part of the day.
Justine Reichman: I would agree with that. I'm also curious how it informs their choices and what they pick when they're in the cafeteria. Knowing that they helped harvest this, their friend or neighbor did suggest that maybe they choose that more often than the others.
Laura La Vacca: It certainly will make them try it. I think peer pressure for a lack of a better word is really powerful in the lunch line. So if I have a line of kids coming through the lunch line and one kid declines something because, oh, that looks terrible. Then it's really hard to get back that momentum for somebody else to be brave enough to say, oh, I'm going to try that now. So we really try to encourage kids to try things because they're listening more to their friends than they are to us. So it does have an impact when their friend is the one who grew that carrot or that cherry tomato, that's definitely influencing them.
Justine Reichman: I'm curious, because they're being influenced by their friends, what percentage would you say of the students are now more open to eating what they grow, what others grow, that they might not have before because of either peer pressure, information, participation made a meaningful impact to those students to be able to eat better for you foods, and make better choices.
Laura La Vacca: That's kind of subjective. I would hesitate to put a percentage on that. We do know that exposing kids to different foods, a variety of foods in a variety of ways does have an impact in their choice. So for example, one of the programs we run is called a Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program. That's another federal grant that allows us to purchase fruits and veggies. And at this time of year, it's mostly local to bring to the classroom for kids to try in a different setting than the cafeteria. So if it's something unusual, like kohlrabi, we might send it to the classroom with a little bit of education for the teacher to have it with the student in a different setting. And then we might put that on the menu or in the salad bar, and then they see it in different ways. I think we know that that has a lot of impact on kids making more variety of choices. In Burlington in particular, we have quite a diverse culture, so I think some of that has an impact on kids on what choices they make just because of what they're used to at home.
Justine Reichman: I think that the information and the education around this, and the fact that you can see people making more choices or being open to more choices is really important in this kind of environment. It's funded by the state. They're giving you guidelines so that you can create better free wheels. But then you have the challenge of the kids like the tater tots and just whatever they were used to, or maybe they've never seen these vegetables. So bringing them to their awareness has got to be really just an opportunity to show them what else is out there. So in an environment like this, how large is your school?
Laura La Vacca: Well, I have eight schools. We serve 3,500 students. I started out in a little school with 120 kids. It was a lot easier with a little school. A little rural school with 120 kids to have a real huge impact on their daily choices to have those personal conversations. So really, it's the person standing in the kitchen that's having those personal conversations that has the impact on kids' choices.
Justine Reichman: Are there any stories you can share that you've heard of students that have now been able to be more open and aware, and make better choices because of the education and the access?
Laura La Vacca: Oh, specific stories. Let's see. I definitely remember one of my very first interactions 20 years ago running this little school and coming in. The community was not happy with what happened before, so I came in fresh and new with new ideas and didn't really know about what was going on before. And I'm a firm believer, and especially vegetables, kids really don't want them overcooked or sometimes not cooked at all. I can remember a kid coming up to me, I had served something with broccoli, and I had basically blanched the broccoli. That was it. Kid came up to me, Miss Laura. I don't know what you did to this broccoli, but it's the best broccoli I ever had. I didn't cook it, actually. I let broccoli be broccoli. And I think it's about developing a relationship with the students and them trusting you. And that's really what it is. It's about developing trust. I'm not here to poison you. I'm here to encourage you to try new things. This is what I love. Sometimes, I would say to kids, when you bring home a piece of art and put it in the refrigerator, you want everybody to look at it and say, wow, that's fantastic. I want you to try my food. I want you to give it a try. And if you don't like it, you don't have to eat it. I think it's important to let them make their choices too.
“By exploring other ways [to cook], it allows people to taste the vegetables, to know what they are, and to start to make them themselves.” —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: Definitely. But that's really great. I remember my dad telling me a story about how his mother used to kill the broccoli. It would become brown green. You can picture that. When the broccoli is just a little bit cooked, it's still crunchy, and it still has all its flavor. But he didn't like all of it until he got older, and he learned that that's not the only way you have to cook it. And by exploring these other ways, it allows people to actually taste the vegetables to know what they are, to maybe even start to make them themselves, know how to do it, and what's the difference.
Laura La Vacca: That Justine also talked about learning how to do it. I think kids get really invested when they're doing the cooking too. Anytime that we can bring kids in the kitchen to participate, again, it's that contribution thing. I contributed to this, they're more willing to try it.
Justine Reichman: Let's go back to the beginning. When this all started for you at that little 120 person school, what was it about food and nutrition that really got you on the role to spearhead all these initiatives in schools to create better for you options, education and well rounded meals?
Laura La Vacca: Well, I think we got to go way back 20 years ago if you want to discuss that. I grew up around food. My father had the biggest garden in our little suburban community, and we worked in the garden. We cooked together. We ate together every day. It was the family unit of old. And then at 13, both my parents were working, and I came home and cooked for my family. Every day, my mother would call me on the phone and she'd say, okay, so the lentils are on the table, and this is you got to cook. Make the lentil soup, and this is how you do it. And I would get mad like, I don't want to cook. I'm 13. I want to go hang out with my friends, right? It was just always such a big part of my life. It's not just about the food. It's just about the experience with the food too. And then I worked in restaurants, and then I worked in a nursing home. Actually, when I first moved to Vermont, I was a chef at a local nursing home. It was assisted living, and it was an open kitchen where the residents would walk through the kitchen and they would have conversations with you about food and what you were cooking. And they would tell you, this is terrible. You did a terrible job at this. Or they tell you, this is great. Sometimes when I cook it, I do it this way. But it was this moment where I realized that it wasn't just my life that food impacted, but all of our lives.
Those memories were carried through their entire lives and to their senior life. Still sharing those fond memories of a woman from Germany when dinner was getting on the table, she had to go down to the pub and get the beer and bring it back to her parents so they could have beer. All of the memories around food, eating together and enjoying food. When my oldest kid entered kindergarten, I heard that this job came up at the school, and I just knew that this is for me. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to bring this experience to the school children in my community where my kids are growing up. And that's what I did. And I fed them the way I would want to feed my own children. I want my children to eat healthy, so I'm going to prepare for all the community children. So that was an easy decision.
Justine Reichman: I think that when we grew up with different experiences around food, in my household growing up, every road led to a new meal. We're eating one meal, and we're talking about what we're going to have for the next meal because we're so excited about food. But I'll tell you, it wasn't until I moved to California from New York City that I actually had a garden. That I could actually grow vegetables and be part of that, talk about local and about all those kinds of things that relate to it. I understood eating seasonally, and I understood that I loved food. But I also understood that I could go into the grocery store and get a vegetable or produce from anywhere in the world, because New York does not grow vegetables the way California does. So all these sets of experiences put us on that track. And so when you have students that you're providing supper that might not otherwise have it, because there are children out there that don't get good quality meals at home, whether it's about education, information, accessibility, affordability, any of those things. So the experiences that you and I had at home, people can now get in schools. And I think that that's super interesting. And I wonder what percentage, and maybe you don't have to do percentages, of your students are coming. They're excited to get those experiences because they're not getting them at home, and it's really changing the trajectory on how they perceive food.
Laura La Vacca: My current role is very different from the roles that I've had in the past. I work in a community with a 50% free and reduced rate. What that means is that 50% of our students are food insecure. So their experience is, I'm coming to get fed. They want certain foods. They have preferences. But I think in many cases, this is their nourishment. There's a lot of challenges right now. I don't think we're unusual in Vermont. Finding workers is extraordinarily challenging. So we're feeding more kids, and we have less workers to do, and so that changes our ability to do some of the things that we really want to do. Or all of the things that limit our ability to bring in fresh local produce every day.
Justine Reichman: 50% is a large population of people who are food insecure. I'm wondering, as a result as they're relying on you, how large of a group are you helping? Because I think that people don't realize how much these families rely on schools to feed their kids and give them their healthy meals.
Laura La Vacca: We're feeding 80% of the kids every day. 80% of our population are participating in lunch. In Vermont, we have universal school meals. I think it's important for all kids to eat free at school so that there isn't a stigma that goes with the meal that we're serving. It's not just the poor kids who are eating. Everybody eats. Everybody eats the same meal. I don't know what else to say about that.
Justine Reichman: I think that's really what I was because I think the fact that everybody's eating the same meal, that such a large percentage of kids that are being fed there. It really does take away the stigma and allows everybody to feel like they're on a level playing field. And that this is what we do. We all eat lunch together. We all go to the garden together. Everybody can do different things and participate in it. It's not just the people that can afford it, it's part of this community at school. It's not about anything else.
Laura La Vacca: It is how we build community. We tell kids, we're happy you're here. You belong here, and we want you to be here. And that's how we send that message. When they walk in that door and smell muffins cooking down the hall, or that lunch is being cooked for them while they're learning. They know they're going to get taken care of when they come to school. I think that's one of the most important things that we can do, and then they're ready to learn.
Justine Reichman: I think that's really important, and it allows them to also feel, like you said, taking care of. Somebody's thinking of me. Somebody's planning for me. Somebody is making sure that I'm cared for and fed, which I think is really, really nice and important. And I'm curious, if we look back at when you first came to Vermont in this school to where you are today, how have these programs evolved? What can we expect to see in the future? What would you like the future to look like?
Laura La Vacca: What would I like the future to look like? It's interesting in my role now, I am working on some procurement. We have some pretty strict procurement rules in federal programs in the way that we purchase our food and the contracts that we have with vendors. When I first started 20 years ago, I bought an entire beef animal. And I had brought it to the slaughterhouse, and I had it slaughtered to my specifications. I got an AG license, and I sold the expensive cuts to the teachers so that I had quality, organic beef to serve to my students at a commercial price. That was 20 years ago. Now, local beef is available for all of us in all the districts, 66 districts, something like that in Vermont. And everybody does their own local procurement. We figure out what we can and can't do, and where to get it. I really would like to see more statewide local procurement. We're looking at the entire state, and we're finding that either have several contracts or forward contracts, where we're planning that all kids in Vermont are going to eat Vermont beef. Or all kids in Vermont are going to get Vermont carrots. I don't know what it is, but more statewide procurement so that we can support our local agriculture and communities, and have competitive pricing so that we can afford it. Because we don't get a ton of money to serve for our meals. It's 4.52 per lunch. That's what we get now. That has to cover our food, our labor. Everything that we do has to be covered in that 4.52 per meal. So statewide purchasing, local purchasing could help us get better pricing.
Justine Reichman: So in addition to that, is there anything else you'd like to see for your program, or how it's integrated there in Vermont?
Laura La Vacca: In my program, my soapbox is, I want school nutrition to be part of education. So it's a small pocket of us, of teachers who are integrating school nutrition into their classroom. So I would love to see more students participating in preparation of the food meals, in learning about the different foods and how to cook them. And I think it really could be a fantastic vehicle for them to learn any number of things, process, writing, math, fractions, history, culture. I think food is not integrated enough into the daily lives of the kids. Or the school nutrition department is not integrated enough. And I think it has real value for schools to look at it a little differently.
Justine Reichman: Do you have any plans to navigate this and spearhead it within your community?
Laura La Vacca: I am talking to some schools, and it's a slow process because everybody's overwhelmed. Like I said, there is a labor crisis. We don't have enough workers in the kitchen. And there's the paraeducators. They don't have enough of them, so it feels overwhelming. Cooking with kids takes a lot of work. But I am talking to a couple of principals about some of my ideas about bringing kids into the kitchen and having them help serve, just as a start. How can they contribute? And another school talking about, well, maybe later on in the year, the kids could help cook one of the meals. So I've done some of that in the smaller schools where I've worked, but I'd like to see more systems.
“I want school nutrition to be part of education… The school nutrition department is not integrated enough. It has real value for schools to look at it a little differently.” —Laura La Vacca
Justine Reichman: You know what that reminds me of? I mean, a little bit different. But if you've ever gone to camp, have you ever gone to camp? At most camps, I think you have those CIT's, but then you also have the tables. And at every table, there's somebody there that serves. There's somebody there that cleans up. There's somebody there that helps in the kitchen. And I wonder how that would be in a school setting, something like that. I don't know. As you're sitting there saying, I remember doing some of those things. Not all of it to the extent that you're talking about it.
Laura La Vacca: I think in Japan, it's part of the day. If you look at other cultures, they do it. They do make that work. It wouldn't be easy, but it can't be done. Just because it's not easy doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking at it.
Justine Reichman: What do you think the biggest obstacle is in being able to integrate that?
Laura La Vacca: Obstacles? I don't know what the biggest one is. I think liability is going to be an obstacle. I think when we start talking about bringing kids in the kitchen and what the risks are. I keep saying staffing. But if you talk to a teacher, it's two hours of planning for one hour of teaching, right? So there's a lot of planning. We've already established lesson plans, and teachers have really worked hard over the years to create what they teach. So asking them to change it is a big investment in time and schedules. I know what my regulations are and what the USDA says that I have to do. I don't know what the teacher's regulations are, but they have all kinds of regulations that they also have to meet. And so what does that look like for them making changes or doing things differently?
Justine Reichman: Yeah, I think that there's a lot of challenges. But I think it's an exciting thing to look at because I think the impact can be so great. So are you familiar with the Green Bronx machine? We'll send you a link on that. He spearheaded a program in the Bronx in New York. I'm from New York. And basically, it's about teaching these kids how to grow vegetables. And as you said, how that connects them to be better students, and how they learn so many different things that are useful as they're doing history, math, except science. So I think that it might provide some inspiration. There may be opportunities for collaboration. His programs are set up in different schools. I think it's a $5,000 grant. Or if somebody could pay, if they can afford or maybe they get it, and then he gives you the playbook, so to speak, and helps to integrate it. But he'd be a great person to connect with for inspiration and to hear what he's been doing and share ideas. Because I know that he's done a lot of different stuff. He does not have your background. He was a school teacher. He wasn't specifically doing what you're doing. But I think together, you guys might collaborate or innovate.
Laura La Vacca: All right, I'll look for that link. That sounds interesting and exciting.
Justine Reichman: Definitely. Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me today. This was a really important conversation to have within this series, because our goal is to really as the new year for school starts. Kids are going back to school, and we're really trying to spotlight the importance of nutrition, food for those students, and the education around it so that it can be part of their value system. And we're hoping that these kinds of conversations will inspire others to ask more questions, be curious, and maybe even include some changes in their daily lives.
Laura La Vacca: Thank you for having me and being interested in what I think is very important work. I appreciate the invite.
Justine Reichman: Thank you for all that you do, and I want to thank everyone for tuning in today. These episodes come down every Tuesday. We have a new one that launches each week. You can listen to them and watch them. The podcasts are available wherever you listen to podcasts on iTunes, or Spotify, etcetera. And then of course, on our Essential Ingredients series, videocast on YouTube. We hope to hear from you soon. Let us know if you have any questions, continue the conversation with Laura, or just tell us that you'd like more information on what we're talking about here.
