S8 Ep17: How to Leverage Data to Reveal Hidden Market Opportunities with Kate Burns and Andreas Duess
“Wi-Fi and the Internet have now become a utility. But food is not. It should be! Good food should be as available and accessible as Wi-Fi.” —Kate Burns
“Hit the market where the market is not where you wish it would be.” —Andreas Duess
Leveraging data and insights provides businesses with a strategic edge. Rather than relying solely on assumptions or untested ideas, a data-driven approach empowers companies to design products and strategies that deliver impactful solutions that meet customers’ needs.
6Seeds is a company that provides data-backed insights to guide businesses toward sustainable growth. Their analysis helps founders move past assumptions to make fact-based choices. By acting on insights from real consumer behavior and preferences, entrepreneurs can create relevant offerings and navigate the path to success.
Listen in as Justine interviews 6Seeds co-founders, Kate Burns and Andreas Duess to discuss how understanding real customer behaviors through data empowers entrepreneurs to expand their brand beyond initial expectations.
They also talk about the key questions founders should ask themselves upfront, how hard data can help reframe business models, how a data-first approach can set the stage for long-term wins, and much more!
Connect with Kate:
After running Google Europe, and then launching Buzzfeed Tasty during her tenure as CEO of Buzzfeed, Kate has now co-founded 6 Seeds to support brands that build a sustainable future for food.
Connect with Andreas:
Andreas started his career at Ogilvy in London, focusing on tech with Sony, Canon, and Cisco. He moved to Toronto and co-founded one of North America’s leading marketing agencies focusing on food, drink, and ag.
He is now utilizing his deep CPG knowledge to support the brands that are building the future of food.
Connect with 6Seeds
Episode Highlights:
01:16 Leveraging Tech for Food
04:19 Food and Beverage Industry: Challenges and Solutions
13:14 Utilizing Data for Product Development
18:01 Determining Potential Target Audience
25:03 Identifying the Core Opportunity for Businesses
30:48 Building a Successful Business Through Data-Driven Insights
Tweets:
Data-driven insights are a game-changer for entrepreneurs. Learn how to design solutions people will love with @jreichman and 6SeedsCo Co-Founders, Kate Burns and Andreas Duess. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #Season8 #6Seeds #dataanalytics #datadrivendecisions #marketreserach #insightsoverassumptions
Inspirational Quotes:
06:35 “The failure rate is so high. These companies are finding it incredibly difficult to secure the investment they need. And we can, with our AI-backed solutions, de-risk and give them a chance to succeed in the market. And the end result is better food and a better life for us.” —Andreas Duess
07:25 “You always want to start from who's buying.” —Kate Burns
07:58 “We want to champion those businesses, and we want to help them forge the way to success to the shelves so we, as consumers, can make better choices for our health and a better economy.” —Kate Burns
09:49 “Education often goes hand-in-hand with accessibility and price.” —Kate Burns
10:35 “Wi-Fi and the Internet have now become a utility. But food is not. It should be! Good food should be as available and accessible as Wi-Fi.” —Kate Burns
11:27 “We would love for investment businesses to see that the health of our planet is completely dependent on food and beverages.” —Kate Burns
13:19 “A majority of food entrepreneurs spent years to create products nobody wants to buy. And that is an unfortunate fact of life.” —Andreas Duess
14:41 “Changing people's behavior is always really difficult, but nudging people's behavior is a lot more simple.” —Andreas Duess
23:41 “Data is the support that these brands need to be able to better understand who they are, and how to move forward in a smart, more efficient, financially solid way.” —Justine Reichman
24:09 “It still requires us, as humans, to act on the data because the data is the navigation point.” —Kate Burns
25:05 “We don't sell data, we sell insight.” —Andreas Duess
34:28 “Emotion can get us caught up in trouble when we get too emotional.” —Justine Reichman
35:09 “Hit the market where the market is not where you wish it would be.” —Andreas Duess
Transcriptions:
Justine Reichman: Good morning, and welcome to Essential Ingredients. I'm your host, Justine Reichman. With me today is Kate and Andreas from 6 Seeds.
Welcome, guys. How are you?
Andreas Duess: Very well, thanks for having us.
Justine Reichman: It's my pleasure. I'm so excited for them to get to know you, hear a little bit about what you do, and the kind of resource you can be as they build their businesses. So Kate, if you would, would you please introduce yourself, your position and what you do?
Kate Burns: Hi, everyone, my name is Kate, Kate Burns. I am the CEO and Founder of 6 Seeds. And I'm responsible for setting the strategy and helping grow this business and all of our clients within the F&B sector.
Justine Reichman: Thank you, Kate. Andreas, please introduce yourself, your position and what you do.
Andreas Duess: Of course. My name is Andreas, I'm the managing partner for 6 Seeds. I run a North American business. And we do what I do. We help clients, we help the people we work with to create clarity around the business, and we create clarity in three different parts. We create clarity for new product development, and how to run the business. We create clarity and marketing, and we create clarity in investment.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. I think we're in the perfect place to be able to share this as a resource because our listeners, whether they're food, whether they're beverage, whether they're CPGs or just building a better for you food business can really take great insight from what you have to offer. So I want to kick it off just so our community gets to know you a little bit better. What is your specialty in your background?
Kate Burns: Oh, wow. I'm an early adopter of digital, seems like such a past tense now. So I started life, my working life was for News International, which is obviously a US publisher, and I worked for a mainstream newspaper called The Sun. And then that was it. So I spent a year there, and then ended up working for Ziff Davis back in 94, which is like crazy. So I think that's 30 years ago. So that was it. So then I was plucked from traditional back then into like a pioneering completely virgin territory of then called the internet. So I worked for Ziff Davis, Yahoo, and double click, and AltaVista, and then I ended up being the first employee at Google back in 2000, Dailymotion, AOL, around AOL. I had senior positions at an early age. I'm now only 24, by the way. Yeah, that's a joke. At the middle age, I realized that all of my years in Tech had accumulated this wealth of knowledge for working with brands, specifically food and beverage were the brands that really captured my heart, my passion, my imagination. Because being a mom, a parent, I was making choices back then for my children as a family that were really kind of like convicting me. As a technologist, as a parent, as someone that is very aware of where we are and how we're going to feed this planet, I suddenly started thinking of how I could lean into my many years working in tech and then my passion for food and beverage, how would these two could be married? As a kid, it was born in my brain. Probably about 15 years ago, I met Andreas. We have similar backgrounds. But really, we are the marrying of all of our years of working within technology, how we can use tech to solve the biggest problems that the world's face, and how this is not being utilized or underutilized within food and beverage, and with agriculture, and with the future of food technology. And that's really where we are now. So I'm gonna pass on to my Co-Founder who will like to couple the story from his perspective.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Thank you. Just a little bit about your background so that when we're chatting further and we go deeper into what we can offer our community as resources, insight and inspiration, they better understand where you're coming from.
Andreas Duess: Yeah, absolutely. Like Kate, I've got a background in technology when I lived in London, in the UK. I worked for a whole bunch of the big tech companies on the agency side, Cisco, Sony, Canon, those kinds of things. We always say that we were instrumental in setting up, helping to give birth in a very humble way to the internet as we know it today. Moved to Canada, and I've always been really interested in food. I worked as a line cook for three years when I was at university. My grandmother taught me how to cook when I was a kid. And so when I moved to Toronto, I decided to set up a specialist agency that focuses on food and drink. And we built this agency, my business part turned on. I rebuilt this agency to Canada's largest independent marketing agency specializing in the F&B and CPG space. The opportunity arose to sell the company to exit the business, which I took. And then part of my reasoning for exiting the business was because I saw the technology developments that we are all faced today, I saw the opportunity to work with big data in a meaningful way, I saw the opportunity to push the development of Artificial Intelligence forward, all of this in service of the food businesses that we saw.
So when the opportunity arose to start a business from scratch with the tools we have available, and starting it with Kate, starting with this amazing co-founder and starting in this global company from the get go, I took this opportunity. When we look at the failure rates in CPG, and when we look at failure rates of companies that are trying to change the world for the better, there aren't 82%, 75 to 85%, depending on which number you believe. And no other industry would even remotely accept such a failure rate. It costs all of us money when we go shopping for food because the money has to come from somewhere. And when it comes to entrepreneurs to newly set up companies, the money comes out of the entrepreneurs pocket or it comes out of investor pockets. And the failure rate being what it is, a lot of the companies that have ideas that we desperately need to change the food system for the better because the failure rate is so high, these companies are finding it incredibly difficult to secure the investment they need. And we can with our data backed solutions, with our AI backed solutions, we can take risks. We can give them a chance to succeed and market that, and the end result is better food and a better life for us.
Justine Reichman: Okay. It sounds like you guys are the perfect resource for somebody building a food and beverage company from where I'm sitting. I'm curious on what you hope to achieve by doing this with your clients. What is your greatest hope for both success and your clients? Let's start with you, Kate, if you can name two things.
“We want to champion those businesses, and we want to help them forge the way to success to the shelves so we, as consumers, can make better choices for our health and a better economy.” —Kate Burns
Kate Burns: Okay, so from a consumer. You always want to start from who's buying, right? So from a consumer standpoint, I think better choices and solid choices that are founded on good business, good practice, better ingredients, fairly sourced ingredients, all of the things that we as now as parents are responsible consumers just would expect as being purchases. I think that's one of the pillars of success that we want to champion. We want to champion those founders, we want to champion those businesses, and we want to help them forge the way to success on the shelves. So we as consumers can make better choices and for a better economy.
Justine Reichman: So before you go on to the second one, I'm curious, what role does education plan that?
Kate Burns: Are we doing education from--
Justine Reichman: The consumer to the innovator, because it's both. Innovators have to be inspired and educated to offer this new better solution. And then consumers need to better understand the information so that they can make the right choice on what they choose off the shelf.
Kate Burns: That's such a good point because education comes at a price. And at the moment, we are economically restricted globally. And often, health becomes secondary. It's a fact that it's cheaper to feed your kids at McDonald's than it is to cook at home.
Justine Reichman: And that's awful. If that's the only way you could feed your family, we would come up with better accessible solutions.
Kate Burns: Sorry to say this, but retailers and the large incumbents allow us to make those choices. Education has to come from better accessibility. It has to come from the price. So it has to be cheaper to buy from your local store or even from your farm shop if you have access to that. Knowing that buying the ugly stuff, buying the stuff in the secondhand basket is actually okay as long as you know how to cook it. So yes, that's an amazing point. I think education often goes hand in hand with accessibility and price. So the two have to go hand in hand, and then the whole system, we could go down the rabbit hole here. But the system has broken tons of warehousing distribution supply logistics accessibility. This is why Andreas and I have decided many decades working in technology where we handle the same questions. We were discussing how the internet can be fully accessible for the global population back in the 90s. This is how we're approaching F&B. I feel that this is almost the same challenge. The WiFi and the Internet has now become a utility. But food is not. So the good food, which is available to our children and to our grandparents, all of us should be accessible as WiFi.
And I think sometimes, parents have no debate on what's more important. I think education is paramount. I think pricing is even more important. If it's down to eating and Wi Fi, maybe food becomes secondary, and that has massive impacts on child behavior, on our health as a nation. This is an enormous problem. So going back to your first question, what would we like to do? We would like to be heroes on the shelves. We would love there to be a price correction, we would love for investment businesses to see that food and beverages is the health of our planet. It's completely dependent on this subject, and this to be taken very, very seriously. And as the address pointed out, the failure rate of those businesses are 80 to 90%. How many of those could have been well changed? How many of those founders and those enterprises could have made a difference? We don't know because they weren't given the chance to succeed. And what we're doing with succeed is backing those businesses with data for the first time by allowing them to prove their worth with real insights that back those businesses on real data instead of beliefs or passions, or I think this tastes good if we can back those businesses with real true found metrics that allow those businesses to succeed against parameters that we need. So price points, is it sustainably sourced or equally sourced? Can it be distributed and still make a margin? Is it healthy? Is this something that has IP? Is it valuable? Biowaste is a huge sector that Andreas and I are looking for. All of these factors, I think, have not been put to the table before we've started to reach a climax, which is where we are now.
Justine Reichman: So if we look at that, Andreas, and we understand the data that you guys are providing us succeeds, to empower people to make more informed choices, how do you see that this dictates to what Kate was saying, and the impact of price correction being able to make better for your choices? What do you see that enables your customers, your clients to be able to do, and how?
Andreas Duess: One of the things that we're seeing, a lot of customers, a lot of food entrepreneurs, in a majority of food entrepreneurs, they spent the years to create products that nobody wants to buy. And that is just a really unfortunate fact of life. When you look at the numbers, what we can achieve, what we can help to do is we don't want to take away creativity. We don't want to take away personal passion. We don't want to make everything algorithm based or everything database. What we want to do, we want to empower personal passion. We want to empower creativity. And we want to empower the next generation of food manufacturers in their quest of bringing better food to the market. When you're just relying on your hunch, when you're just relying on people around you who have a tendency to tell you what you want to hear, when you're making the mistake of relying on social media data which is hugely performative, then you end up bringing products to market that will fail in the market. When you're relying on data that comes from observations, what people are really blind, what they're really cooking at home, what they're really ordering at restaurants, all of a sudden, you have a really powerful foundation. And from this foundation, you can say, well, this is people's behavior.
Changing people's behavior is always really difficult, but nudging people's behavior is a lot more simple. So if I'm putting out a product into the market, let's say it has no sugar in it, and let's say the sugar in it, let's say it's best for argument's sake. If I know that people abide by traditional sweets for the following reasons: they want to make themselves feel better, they want to have a feeling of indulgence, then what I can do is I can take all of these motivations. I can map my product to hit those same decision making points. And that then allows me to hit the market and meet the markets where the market is rather than coming in. I'm not suggesting everybody is like this, but perhaps being preachy, or perhaps putting an image out there from a small number of people. But it just allows me to take my passion, take my creativity, and then meet the market where the market is. Then make sure that my product is relevant for the market, and then affect change from within the market rather than standing outside the market and being disappointed that nobody wants to talk to me. Does that make sense?
Justine Reichman: I keep wondering about that. What instances could you share about some of the clients that you've taken on and that have been able to take advantage of the data and recalibrate as a result? Could you share maybe one story about that?
Kate Burns: I'd love that. Sorry, I got so excited by what Andreas was saying. I wanted to step in because he said the key word for me, which is relevancy. Relevancy is something that, when you're a creator, you very rarely think of relevancy. You think of what's passionate, what counts. And there's nothing worse than being a creator and then having to adapt to your market because you know what it is. We've had an amazing experience for them with an ale brand actually, again, how relevant is ale? Who even thinks about ale? Ale for me is like meat. Like a big tankard, it just speaks to big hairy men and pubs. Again, it's something that I've addressed, and I have addressed as a non drinker. I'm a low drinker. But ale is something that is very sustainably brewed. It can be grouped with low alcohol, very low alcohol, and tastes amazing. I'm not a beer drinker. I'm a lady. I'm more like a sprinter. Breaking our perceptions of what could be relevant, you could have thought that l could be relevant, and what else could be relevant? We're working with this brand called Dr. Jackals. It is so relevant for a number of reasons. No alcohol usually means that you're sacrificing taste that doesn't taste great. But also psychologically, if you're at a party or a designated driver, your family do, you're at a baby shower, right?
So you want to get drunk at a baby shower. All of those things that potentially people want to have fun, but they don't want to be drunk. But at the same time, having that small amount of alcohol, it's a psychological placebo that it can mean so much. It's like having zero sugar, some sugar, chocolate, no chocolate, just knowing that you have this while someone's having a margarita. You have a drink in your hand that gives you enough that you feel that you're part of the party, but you're not sacrificing a hangover. You're driving, your cognitive ability and many other things that could be at play.
So with Jackals, what we did with them, we worked with them on the data. So we have pale ale as a category, we've got low alcohol or zero alcohol as category, and then we have all of the sentiments that are attached to that. And what was so fascinating when we ran this through our platforms and through the billions of data points that we have, what came back is that there is a need across gender. So I felt that this was being ale, it would be more male skewed. It's not. Actually, females and Gen Z are more curious actually, I would try this and it tastes great. It's very citrusy. It's actually really refreshing. I think ale as an attachment to the brand is more of a detriment to what it is. So we went back to Jackals and we were actually, you have a broad market that spans across Gen Z's who are curious. They want to play sports the next day, they don't want to be drunken, embarrassed. They want to drive home in one car, then you have your women who could be at the baby shower, who have got small children that they stay with. There are so many reasons. There are so many solutions. There's so many audiences that we thought initially it would be pale ale. But actually, what it opened up with is this enormous opportunity for this brand to explore, which went beyond parallel. It now goes beyond actually drinking. It goes to social occasions, it goes to brunches, goes to breakfast, it goes to wedding parties. As I said, kids birthday parties are actually, we could explore an entire community around the kind of sober curiosity that initially, this was just a parallel in a can that this data has opened up and factually opened up.
Justine Reichman: If we could go back to just what Dr. Jackal had thought, the company. I'm just curious, before you came in, and before you did this data, and you provided this data, what was their vision of their brand?
Kate Burns: So he was like, literally, this is a pale ale. It's a pale ale, low alcohol. It's a guy, a beautiful brand. But it's Dr. Jackals on account, and it's a low alcohol beer.
Justine Reichman: Did they believe it was mostly skewed for men? I was just curious, when they came to you with where their head was at, and then as a result, how it changed because of what you were able to provide.
Kate Burns: But that was an amazing aha moment. Maybe this could be relevant for women, mothers or teenagers. But now, the data actually, completely endorsed that. And now, we're in a position where, my gosh, the world is our oyster because either we've seen the birth of low alcohol wines that don't taste too great. But this looks good. And it tastes great. For us was this incredible moment of epiphany where it wasn't just a thought or hunch, but it was backed up by true data. We've now expanded their entire reach. And it's now being backed up by sales. So taste is the predominant design. We could say that this is something, and it could be approached by an 18 year old. But it's only when it's on the shelves or it's in the fridges. And then all of a sudden, you have a bunch of like 19 year olds, sorry, in Europe, you take one ID. But as a rule, 21 in North America, and they're saying that this tastes great. I feel like I'm still participating. But I have recited the mental responsibility, the cognitive ability to drive home. And it's backed up.
“Data is the support that these brands need to be able to better understand who they are, and how to move forward in a smart, more efficient, financially solid way.” —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: Down the data is what I'm getting data is the support that these brands need to be able to better understand who they are, and how to move forward in a smart, more efficient, financially solid way. Is that right? And you guys, that succeeds to provide that insight and that resource. Is that a correct statement?
Kate Burns: A correct statement that the data will provide the foundation to the decision making. And as Andreas said earlier, it still requires us as humans to act on the data, because the data is the navigation point. Right. So you are here now, act on it. We still have to build the brand, we still have to reach the community, we still have to have a great product that still tastes great and looks great, and is accessible, and still speaks to the community. There is still so much more that we need to put on top. And I think that's our message to succeed.
Justine Reichman: So with that in mind, Andreas could just shed some light on the additional support that you provide on top of the data that helped drive your client and in a more informed way, maybe temporary?
“We don't sell data, we sell insight.” —Andreas Duess
Andreas Duess: I think it's important to know we don't sell data, we sell insight. We don't provide raw data to our client, we provide insight to a client, marketing insights, and investment insight. So that's what we provide, the data backs everything up. And if need be, we pull the data out. We certainly pull the data out in investment tax, which we share the data when it comes to, for example, presenting for retailers. But what we create is not, here's a data report, good luck with it. What we create for our clients is, here's the way forward that has a higher chance of success. And here is the data that proves that we didn't just make this up. And I think that's super important. I teach at Ivy Business School here in Canada, teaching the MBA program as a visiting lecturer. And they have a big slide of my mom in the learning materials for the students. And it's a big slide of my mom and a headline says, who not to ask. The majority of food founders, they ask their friends. Basically, they ask people who love them, is this great? I could go to my mom with any harebrained idea. I have a crypto blockchain solution that allows the following thing and my mom would say, darling, go right ahead. You make a roaring success out of it. And I think that's true for most situations like this. So what Kate and I do, okay, the queen of asking difficult but necessary questions to people, the kinds of questions that I think a lot of people know need to be asked but have not dared to ask themselves, or they've ignored them because they are so difficult. And so what we come is a, we don't come with a big data report that nobody ever does anything. We come with very slim documents that say, here's your sweet spot, there's your sweet spot, that's where you need to go. And frequently, what we do, what our job is, we focus people on a core opportunity. And I'd say, here's your core opportunity. Ignore everything else, ignore all the shiny extra debt, all the shiny distractions that are in the world, and go and focus there.
Justine Reichman: Now that you've laid it out there, Andreas, Kate, what are some of the key questions that these founders can ask themselves to start this process so that they can make better choices? Share some insights.
Kate Burns: Coming back to Andreas and my roots in technology, there has to be a lesson. What problem am I trying to solve? Who is this for? What problem am I trying to solve? And there is like such a plethora of great products that are in the investment. So think of all the hot spices, or the sauces, the baby food that we could have fed our kids, all of that stuff that has fallen by the wayside, and the millions of dollars pounds of yen that have been spent or misspent on investments that have failed. So I think it comes back to you as a founder within this sector. What problem am I trying to solve? How can I make the world a better place? What am I trying to do? That would be the first. And then the second would be, how can I make this investable because it's almost impossible to build anything now without having backing and the incumbents. And us, as consumers, our choices probably now are more slim than they ever have been. I live in Europe, I don't have delivery. I can't scroll slightly on an app. So I need to go to physical stores. It's still the same, incumbents will still supply the same old stuff so that our choices are quite limited. So within the autism sector, again, I would say, how is this going to be a viable business just because it tastes great. You've got ingredients, and even if you could supply it locally, how is this going to make money?
Justine Reichman: You said that it's the impact we're making on the world, who are we serving? How are we going to build a viable business?
Andreas Duess: Can I add something quickly? I was working with a group of entrepreneurs. Actually, it was last week. A young firm came to me and they said, we'd like to present the idea where we'd like to have your feedback on this. We have half an hour to talk about our businesses, and they were in the business of removing ugly vegetables, ugly food from the supply chain. And rather than sending it to landfill where it rots and creates emissions, they do something with it, which is a business model.
Justine Reichman: They're calling it upcycling.
Andreas Duess: So we looked at the business model. And then when it came to their product, we're seeing all the right things that were mentioning all the red numbers, and then their products were hot sauce and hot honey. And I said to them, tell me how this is going to make money? And they didn't really have an answer to that. And I said, alright, so let's assemble this business. And if you are in the upcycling business, one of your major opportunities to make money and to fit into the broader economy is not to sell an apple sauce made from ugly apples. It is talking to the company where you're buying all the apples from and saying, we've just removed X tons of emissions from the atmosphere, you will be charged for these emissions going forward. And it doesn't matter who's going to sit in the White House because the economy is demanding this, the banks are demanding this, the European market is demanding this. And if the EU demands things, it has worldwide ripples. So if you'd like to sell in Europe as a North American Apple farmer, you have to hit those guidelines. It doesn't matter who's in the White House. China makes no difference, you have to play by those rules.
I said to them, you have to understand that what you're doing here is wonderful. We don't need another hot sauce, we don't need another spiced honey. So great idea with the upcycling, let's take a look at what other things we can do with this. But understand your real business model. Your real business model is emission reduction. How can you sell to your suppliers this emission reduction you are taking away? They have to pay typically for the dumping fees, for those produce that they can't sell. Going forward very soon, they have to pay for the emissions they're putting into the atmosphere. The banks, when they try to raise money next time, the banks now have to report on emissions created with the loans they're putting into the universe. And if you're publicly traded, it gets even worse or better. From whichever side you're looking the same. And they hadn't even thought about the wider implications of what you were doing. And it just opened up an entirely new conversation. We put the data behind it, we pulled all these conversations out there, and they just went away. I know that they're going to build a much stronger business as a result of that conversation alone.
Justine Reichman: I would imagine, what a way to harness the impact of what they're doing, and really focus it on what's really important because what they were doing was important. But it was getting lost because what they were creating wasn't really delivering what people need or want necessarily. So with that in mind, I'm curious, what's the one thing, as we wrap this up, that you feel you want to make sure that these founders really take away from what you're offering, and how you can support them to build a better for your business through insights?
Kate Burns: From my standpoint, I think for me, I have a very linear structure to building a business. And it's tried and tested. So product first. Build the product first. Understand the product. What problem am I solving? What price point is it going to be? Where is it going to be distributed?
Justine Reichman: Okay, Andreas, what would you say?
Andreas Duess: I agree with Kate. And then the other thing is emotion second. Knowledge first, emotion second.
Justine Reichman: Emotion can get us caught up in trouble.
Andreas Duess: Emotions are really important. Emotions are really more important than food. And I am not going to sit here and pretend to be a robot and say, I'm a cook, and I cook for people I love. Hopefully with love. But when you're running a business, give yourself the biggest unfair advantage you can possibly give yourself. And that unfair advantage is data. Understand what really makes people tick, use that foundation to superpower your emotions, and then hit the market. I said this early on, hit the market where the market is not where you wish it would be. Yeah, it's really important.
Justine Reichman: Guys, thank you so much for all your insight and your resources. I think it's been a great, great shot, and a great conversation for those founders building better for you for businesses. And for those folks that would want to get in touch to either talk to you further about their businesses, or how to make better choices, what's the best way to connect?
Kate Burns: Go to a website, www.6seeds.co.
Andreas Duess: You can hit us up on LinkedIn.
Justine Reichman: Thank you guys so much for joining me.
